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My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#321

Post by smsm42 »

voyou wrote: post #92
egwor wrote: post #23

Welcome to the educated new world; where education matters. One thing to consider; perhaps the child shouldn't be in that class/level or school? Perhaps their previous school didn't cover the material so this is all base stuff for everyone else? If it takes you 3-5hrs to do something and you want to sleep before midnight, start earlier. Perhaps when less tired it would be quicker. I used to have homework that could t…

"Welcome to the educated new world; where education matters." Right. So why is this school wasting children's time and energy with busywork, rather than teaching them effectively during the allotted time at school?

Because what matters is not effectiveness, what matters is "being educated". I.e. passing through the process of education and having a paper to prove it. That's what HR depts are checking.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#322

Post by dragonwriter »

lgieron wrote: post #159
rorrr2 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood how the knowledge of the capitals of states or countries is useful in any way. It's meaningless. It can be easily looked up, if you need that information. I can't even imagine a practical scenario when one would need to know it.

It's hard to function in the world without some rudimentary knowledge of it. As for practical scenario, imagine your boss wants to send you to a conference in Paris, and you answer back with "Where?".

> It's hard to function in the world without some rudimentary knowledge of it.

True.

> As for practical scenario, imagine your boss wants to send you to a conference in Paris, and you answer back with "Where?".

That's actually what I would ask if my boss wanted to send me to a conference in "Paris" without any further information (presuming that there wasn't additional context to disambiguate the reference), since there's like a dozen cities with that name in the US, some in Canada, one in Kirabati, and, oh, yeah, a big one in France.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#323

Post by aestra »

madaxe wrote: post #313
leephillips wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only applies to public (state run) schools. Maybe he got suspended from a private school.

Yup. Uptight preppy hole near Chicago.

Whoops, you're right. I didn't consider that the poster went to a private school, in which case all bets are off.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#324

Post by JoeAltmaier »

mcdougle wrote: post #298
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then just skip it! The lying is the issue. If you judge the homework as not being worthwhile, then don't do it, say you didn't do it, and move on.

The problem with that is that, in society currently, your grades are what matter -- at least if you want a normal job at a normal company. To get a job, you have to have a college degree and a good GPA. To get that, you have to get good grades in college -- which means doing the homework and taking the tests. To even get into a decent college you have to have a good GPA in high school -- which, again, means doing the…

I guess we in technology have some immunity to that. I work with musicians, carpenters, and yes rocket scientists. Not all got good grades, not even the best ones.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#325

Post by mcphage »

dsego wrote: post #129
Tichy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The driving factor for mathematics is laziness. I didn't even memorize the basic multiplication table (1-10) for a long time, but I remembered some shortcuts (like multiplying stuff by 9 was easy) and got by.

The multiplication table really bothers me. It's considered to be the least a child can learn in elementary school. And kids that haven't learned to do math mentally just memorise it like a poem. I really don't think this is the correct approach.

We teach multiplication as an algorithm based on breaking the problem into single-digit pieces. If you're trying to learn that algorithm, and you keep needing to figure out what all the pieces are, you won't be able to follow along with the bigger picture. It would be like trying to write an essay, but having to look up the spelling for each word in the dictionary... it would take you a lot longer, and be much more of a struggle. Instead, you memorize the pieces, and then later can focusing on understanding how all of those pieces fit together.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#326

Post by joe5150 »

cac04 wrote: post #254
joe5150 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Those who were never born" doesn't strike me as a concept with much logical positivist value.

Logical positivism doesn't strike me as a concept with much logical positivist value.

Yeah, sure, but that doesn't make "those who were never born" any more meaningful to argue about than, you know, the present bald King of France or whatever.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#327

Post by SiVal »

jerf wrote: post #275
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is there's a very valuable window at that age to permanently learn things. The window should be used to, for example, learn a ton of vocabulary in a foreign language. Or learn a bunch of arithmetic tables by heart, so you can do mental arithmetic without even thinking hard. To waste the window is silly. Learning such things as I mentioned isn't "parroting."

I agree, but there needs to be some good selection. Memorizing multiplication tables will serve you for the rest of your life. (Especially since it doesn't even take all that much, there's a lot of symmetry and patterns in there.) Memorizing huge swathes of a foreign language is the only way to learn it. Memorizing state capitals is debatable. Memorizing who exports the most bananas is USELESS . In 30 years, it may n…

I agree with you. Older minds analyze better than younger minds. They have more knowledge to bring to bear on a topic. Younger minds memorize better than older minds--repeated things make more of a lasting imprint.

Both young and old need to do both, but the best results come from using this time-limited memorization advantage strategically, not haphazardly.

Unfortunately, that's not what we do (in the US). Memorization is described by progressive educrats as "drill and kill". Instead of carefully analyzing what should be memorized to provide the most strategic leverage, they deprecate it almost entirely. Why put a lot of effort, they ask, into memorizing anything in the 21st Century? Multiplication tables? Everyone will have a calculator, they answer. Geography? Google! No, they insist, understanding is what matters: concepts, not facts, as if people reason better with facts stored at Google than with facts in their own heads.

Then they rush students through too much material too quickly for serious analysis. Our minds have multiple modes of operation, and when we don't have time to figure things out, Plan B is to stop analyzing and just try to remember--use memory and metaknowledge about tests to pass. The writer's daughter was explicitly aware of that mode switch.

So we end up with a "progressive" education industry denigrating memorization as a knuckle-dragging, traditional practice with the result that, instead of eliminating memorization itself, they just eliminate the "strategic" part.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#328

Post by scotty79 »

tedunangst wrote: post #310
scotty79 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially funny is criterion that makes it cyberbullying: > the teacher felt threatened Am I supposed not to sneeze if the person is afraid of loud noises? Am I supposed to say he's doing great job (if he's not) just because he feels insecure there and feels threatened by any critique? They only reason they were able to pull this of with straight face is because "cyber" becomes to mean "sinister"

"Reasonable person" standard.

Doesn't seem to be applied here.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#329

Post by gshubert17 »

GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #120

The Author and his daughter haven't learnt the tricks of the trade. I was set 3+hrs of HW a day, but I certainly didn't do that much. First, they need to assess which teachers "Don't mind" if you don't do the homework. This could mean they stand you up in front of the whole class and shout at you, but if they don't give you an after school detention, don't do it. Getting in the teachers good books previously helps wi…

While I agree that 3+hrs of homework a day doesn't accomplish much true learning, I think that most of these "tricks" don't either.

The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be lighted.

I would rather my child got interested in some areas and pursued them out of passion, getting mediocre grades; than followed these tricks to get good grades, but not have learned much else.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#330

Post by gshubert17 »

Afforess wrote: post #52
anigbrowl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe I'm reading someone on hacker news saying 'polynomials don't appear in everyday problems.' As for the start time, likely she is involved in extra-curricular activities, like cheerleading or sports. 5 nights a week? Not buying it. I don't think I'm isolated from the world at all; I managed to deal with a heavy homework load and still have plenty of fun and get into various sorts of trouble (often at th…

I can't believe I'm reading someone on hacker news saying 'polynomials don't appear in everyday problems.' Name a situation where solving a polynomial is something the average person has to do? The only one I can think of is compound interest.

Problems involving projectile motion involve quadratics, s = vt + 0.5g*t^2

The average person may not be called on to solve it analytically, but should have a general understanding of function, solution, and so on. Having worked through some example polynomials may make retaining the general concepts easier.

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