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My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

theatlantic.com

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Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#21

Post by GabrielF00 »

cookiecaper wrote: post #11
rwallace wrote: post #4

There comes a point when an institution becomes so badly broken that the only rational course of action is to get the hell out, and look elsewhere for a solution to your problems. It looks pretty clear from this article that the US school system is well past that point.

Effective schooling could never occur on such a federated level. There's such a broad range of individual personalities and skills along varying axes that the idea of "let's put all the kids born within 10 months of each other in our geographic area in a classroom, and threaten force on people who don't want to cooperate" is never going to function well. I hold the opinion that the proper training and education of on…

As a fellow high school dropout I sympathize with what you're saying, but I don't think it can be the basis for effective public policy. How many Americans have the ability to teach their children math, science, writing, history and civics at a high school level? How many American families have the time to provide children with anything close to the amount of hours of instruction available in schools? And what happens if we build an educational system that doesn't delegate education to the state, as you put it. That system might be fine for parents who have free time and/or can afford tutors, but what about everyone else? Public schools are far from perfect, but they provide vastly more equality of opportunity than existed in our society before their invention.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#22

Post by aidos »

nja wrote: post #18
aidos wrote: post #15

OT but early on there's a quote from the homework: "its [sic] significance" Why is the sic in there? Is that not the correct use of 'its' in this context?

I spent a minute looking at that too. I think the author inserted the [sic] because: "quotes [...] with 1–2 sentence analyses of its [sic] significance" If the "its" is referring to the quotes, it should be "their significance".

Ah, of course. Thanks both.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#23

Post by egwor »

Welcome to the educated new world; where education matters. One thing to consider; perhaps the child shouldn't be in that class/level or school? Perhaps their previous school didn't cover the material so this is all base stuff for everyone else?

If it takes you 3-5hrs to do something and you want to sleep before midnight, start earlier. Perhaps when less tired it would be quicker.

I used to have homework that could take me between 30 mins and 2.5 hrs each day (7 days a week). I started when I came in from school and had a break for some tv and then finished to have time to do other things. You learn how to be faster at the homework. When I was 16-18 I most probably spent longer still

I used to have enough time to walk home from school, watch tv, play sport, play trumpet and do that work. Also, at lunch time there is usually time to do some work. We used to collaborate on some stuff too.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#24

Post by vacri »

There are some concepts at odds here. "The measurements included numbers like 78 13/64, and all this multiplying and dividing was to be done without a calculator." is not 'rote learning'/'memorisation without rationalisation'. It's directly exercising an ability. I've had a university-level experience reach for her calculator to multiply 0.2 by 3, and when I forbade her from using it, she just stared dumbly at me. That someone of that age can't do that multiplication 'automatically' was quite a surprise, especially given that it was a science course.

Similarly, finding the distances between state capitals exercises research and application skills, and gives a feeling for geographical distances. Doing it in miles and kilometers is helping to get people accustomed to using the Standard International set of units alongside the archaic Imperial units. Likewise, a journalist finding scientific mathematical notation 'unintuitive' doesn't mean it has no merit.

The workload is ridiculous, absolutely, but the content of the homework doesn't sound as useless as the article makes it out to be.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#25

Post by Wingman4l7 »

cookiecaper wrote: post #11
rwallace wrote: post #4

There comes a point when an institution becomes so badly broken that the only rational course of action is to get the hell out, and look elsewhere for a solution to your problems. It looks pretty clear from this article that the US school system is well past that point.

Effective schooling could never occur on such a federated level. There's such a broad range of individual personalities and skills along varying axes that the idea of "let's put all the kids born within 10 months of each other in our geographic area in a classroom, and threaten force on people who don't want to cooperate" is never going to function well. I hold the opinion that the proper training and education of on…

> I hold the opinion that the proper training and education of one's offspring should be a foremost life goal, and that delegating it to the state because "it's easier", "I don't have the time", etc. is an abhorrent cop-out.

This is one of the main reasons why I do not (and very well may never) have children; I realized that the commitment to do it properly is just too great for me to make.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#27

Post by rtpg »

vacri wrote: post #24

There are some concepts at odds here. "The measurements included numbers like 78 13/64, and all this multiplying and dividing was to be done without a calculator." is not 'rote learning'/'memorisation without rationalisation'. It's directly exercising an ability. I've had a university-level experience reach for her calculator to multiply 0.2 by 3, and when I forbade her from using it, she just stared dumbly at me. Th…

I spent a lot of time up until high school forcing myself not to use a calculator, because I wanted to work on my mental skills in arithmetic, but I always make a lot of small mistakes, even now.

I have a hard enough time concentrating on 'easy' things , please don't ask me to hold numbers in my brain. I am a pretty "mathy" person but mental multiplication is not meant for the human thought process, too much is going on.

I say this half in jest, but I've met people with very good mathematical sense (especially in domains such as topology) who are incapable of multiplying 3 numbers without making a mistake. Some people have very few registers, and RAM is really slow.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#28

Post by code_duck »

My high school in Connecticut declared that you should spend 1 hour doing homework for each academic class every day, which adds up to 12 hours each day focused on attending school, or more. I have no idea why this sounds reasonable to administrators and teachers.

The idea of 'memorization' as learning has always bothered me... The most reliable long-term way to recall things is to learn and comprehend them.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#29

Post by rtpg »

cookiecaper wrote: post #11
rwallace wrote: post #4

There comes a point when an institution becomes so badly broken that the only rational course of action is to get the hell out, and look elsewhere for a solution to your problems. It looks pretty clear from this article that the US school system is well past that point.

Effective schooling could never occur on such a federated level. There's such a broad range of individual personalities and skills along varying axes that the idea of "let's put all the kids born within 10 months of each other in our geographic area in a classroom, and threaten force on people who don't want to cooperate" is never going to function well. I hold the opinion that the proper training and education of on…

school isn't just about learning, it's also about meeting your peers. The last thing we need is even more social segregation because all the rich kids don't know what it's like to not be able to afford 3 homes.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#30

Post by anigbrowl »

So much whining. These tasks represent actual problems you might be tasked with finding out in the real world; not all of them are directly relevant to students or their utility immediately apparent, but the mothodologies are solid. Growing up in Ireland and going to high school int he 80s, I was doing 3-4 hours/night of homework from the equivalent of your grade 7, and I still found time to watch TV and read for pleasure each evening.

I laughed out loud at the author's complaint that math homework involved doing a lot of calculation without the aid of a calculator. Well yes, that is how you develop math feel. Using a calculator is great, and appropriate in later math classes, but training in mechanistic tasks is important too, for the same reason that athletic exercise involves a good deal of repetition and practice.

It's the same reason musicians play scales every day - it's not because they don't care about the theoretical underpinnings, it's because performance depends on practice. Likewise, understanding the mechanics of a tennis ball hitting a racket won't make you into a good tennis player, and understanding how to punch something into a calculator won't help you develop your mental math skills.

What I am interested in is what my daughter is doing during those nightly hours between 8 o’clock and midnight

Why are you letting her wait until 8pm to start homework? Start at 6, done by 9.

I don’t remember how much homework was assigned to me in eighth grade. I do know that I didn’t do very much of it and that what little I did, I did badly. My study habits were atrocious. After school I often went to friends’ houses, where I sometimes smoked marijuana, and then I returned home for dinner; after lying to my parents about not having homework that night, I might have caught an hour or two of television.

And look at the results: simple problems like calculating the area and perimeter of complex shapes just seem too, too hard for your poor brain. Instead you have the mental equivalent of a beer gut.

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