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How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

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Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#111

Post by Volpe »

khuey wrote: post #66
rxin wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about comparing mainland and Taiwan? I don't think there exists an obvious conclusion from this comparison if you look at status quo. If you are judging based on the situation before 2000s, I agree with you that there is an obvious conclusion.

Per capita GDP in terms of PPP US: ~$50000 Taiwan: ~$39000 EU: ~$35000 China: ~$9000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP...

That's right, lets take our Western-pro-US measuring stick out and measure china against it in order to show they are not as "successful".

China's goal posts are not in the same spot as the US's.

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#112

Post by DominikR »

I wouldn't categorize this as brainwashing. Or to be more specific: I wouldn't categorize the description in the blog post as brainwashing or torture.

To me, this looks more like some kind of group therapy since the POWs were not forced and the example statement they were asked to make ("The United States is not perfect.") is obviously a fact because nothing is perfect.

What I find interesting is to compare this to what is happening today in Guantanamo.

I mean they are trying to get information and cooperation, why always default to torture?

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#113

Post by yetanotherphd »

Aloisius wrote: post #40
Volpe wrote: post #9

I thought america WAS the aggressor? (Korea isn't really near the US), and it was quite apparent the US wanted satellite states near russia/china, to potentially launch further attacks. Also did the communists do a bad job in china? That is at most controversial... not "brain washed".

> Also did the communists do a bad job in china? That is at most controversial... not "brain washed". Controversial? Good lord, Mao's Great Leap Forward killed between 23 and 42 million people in just a few years.

Only by a very loose definition of "kill" - that is, by looking at total population numbers. And overall, the communist regime saved many more people from starvation (you can also see this in the total population numbers).

Starvation was common before communism (this is second hand "communist propaganda" from my father, probably originally from a similar source to the information the Korean POW's were given), but it wasn't concentrated into a few years like in the great leap forward.

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#115

Post by DominikR »

comex wrote: post #25
daenz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds more like de-brainwashing to me. If those soldiers go in with this perfect idea of America, how we can do no wrong, and how everything we do is justified, then turning that on its head seems more like...rational thinking.

If an opinion is being slowly but inexorably pushed on you from all sides by your captor over a long period of time, as part of an explicitly designed program of of propagandizing, it's brainwashing, regardless of the opinion's merit!

We do this all the time, for example to immigrants. We call this integration in europe, you might also call this learning/internalizing the right values or assimilation.

And if I had to choose between that kind of Chinese brainwashing and Guantanamo/CIA black sites, I'll pick the Chinese option.

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#117

Post by marshray »

firstOrder wrote: post #5

If an American POW comes back to the US and says the US was the aggressor in the Korean War, he does not have an opinion, he has been "brainwashed". What kind of mental gymnastics do I have to perform to think this way. It's about a step removed from saying someone who denies Jesus Is Lord has been possessed by a demon. Or the same thing really.

Soldiers didn't have the internet. They didn't often get up-to-date newspapers and magazines. If they were lucky, they could sometimes get news/propaganda from shortwave radio, e.g., "Voice of America". Mainly they got news from their military and letters from home.

So go for a year or two like this in a horrific combat zone in an utterly foreign Asian country. Then get captured and spend a few years writing essays about Communism in a Chinese-run POW camp (if you're lucky).

It is both reasonable and compassionate that, when they get out, that individual should not be held to account for whatever documents they may have signed or political statements they may have made during that time.

Whether 'brainwashing' was complete fiction or not, it was a concept which let broken men put the past behind them and have a welcome return to their home country.

Re: How China brainwashed American POWs using a classic sales technique

#119

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Volpe wrote: post #104
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primary exports are not owned by the government, that is mostly private. Primary imports in natural resources domestic oriented businesses might be state owned, as are companies that produce primarily for the domestic market (like SOE JV car manufacturers). All those little factories that produce for export are very private. The communist party doesn't really follow any tenants of Marxism at all. Most are only concer…

> Most are only concerned with propping up their families and embezzling enough money to send their kids to a nice school abroad that doesn't suck. You've just described "people in power" world wide. It isn't unique to communism, or china. A huge amount of their economy is state owned[0] That alone is a tenant of marxism. I'm not particularly interested in "true scotsman" style argument regarding is China 'really com…

None of those SOEs export. China's economic success is inspite of the SOEs, not because of them. Private companies subsidize SOE success through higher prices paid to them (with no other option given their monopoly statuses).

China is basically an aristocracy at this point, more so than other countries with corruption. Communist ideology plays little role in politics beyond little red book pissing contests that the left and moderates occasionally get into.

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