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Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

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Re: Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

#21

Post by melange »

yapcguy wrote: post #12
passerinelabs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you go from Apple not including a feature in the MAS (in this case, upgrade pricing) to "abusive relationship?" I and every other small Apple developer would really love some analytics capabilities in the app store, but we don't go around calling its absence "abusive" on Apple's part. The MAS is just another sales channel and Apple doesn't force you to use it. It's not incumbent on them to add features just be…

Yes, I'm being a little dramatic, but... Apple does "force" you to use the MAS. You can't use the iCloud APIs unless your app is sold in the MAS which means you also have to accept sandboxing. Who knows what else will be tied to the MAS in the future. The situation is farcical because developers are paying Apple 30% of their gross revenue for the privilege of a sales channel with no customer information and the spect…

This is just FUD. It's clear why sandboxing is required for the MAS - so that users can expect iOS like safety from the apps. It's also clear why MAS is required for iCloud - because otherwise anonymous developers would be able to arbitrarily abuse the storage service.

There is no slippery slope here.

Re: Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

#22

Post by [deleted] »

yapcguy wrote: post #15
passerinelabs wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually really like the idea of sandboxing and entitlements for Mac apps. It's appropriate for like 90% of all the apps I run and I'll happily click through a scary warning for the things I don't think ought to run in a sandbox. For some developers the MAS is a really nice alternative to direct distribution. You don't have to setup a merchant account and deal with all that. Your apps are automatically searchable (…

Sure, but the rules are completely arbitrary. What if they suddenly say only apps distributed in the MAS can use AirDrop, CoreData, CoreAnimation, etc.? It's not as if they will bother telling developers beforehand. Go look at the Apple developer forums today, under the iOS 7 beta section, people only found out that the iOS App Store allows older versions of apps to be downloaded because 9To5Mac found out about it an…

[deleted]

Re: Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

#23

Post by [deleted] »

fpgeek wrote: post #19
aroch wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you've built and signed your app with your dev cert gatekeeper will open it with no scary warning -- no? That's always been my experience at least

Assuming that the OS is set to permit developer-signed apps. That's the default for now. If the Mac moves further in the direction of iOS, it might not stay that way.

[deleted]

Re: Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

#24

Post by [deleted] »

fpgeek wrote: post #18
josephlord wrote: post #11

I think with iOS 7 and Mavericks it will be possible to do upgrade pricing because of the new features in the receipts which critically include initial purchase date. With that you can offer an in-app purchase to upgrade to the new version features to customers who bought before a certain date and provide them automatically to those who bought after the date. Note that I have not tested this or even studied the API i…

You're missing the point. It's not about what is technically feasible. Omni Group didn't have technical issues implementing their upgrade solution and it contradicted no policy that they were aware of at the time. Nevertheless, Apple decided that they didn't like it and shut them down. They might do the exact same thing to an app that simulated upgrades via in-app purchases. Developers have been asking for upgrade pr…

[deleted]

Re: Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

#25

Post by aleem »

As Ken himself notes in the article, it worked for "retail boxes" but that model is now obsolete.

Upgrade pricing will almost always lead to an abusive relationship where the consumer is on the receiving end. Rate-limiting features, bumping major version numbers, setting targets for bi-annual release cycles, abandonment issues of old versions, creative versioning schemes, complex upgrade paths--it all sucks for consumers. All internal conversations around features and releases will also involve revenue assessment, putting business first, consumers second.

In-app purchases may require some re-architecting but in the end it's a better fit. All consumers should have the latest core so they get security upgrades through the life of an app and can buy any features al-a-carte that are carried forward.

The skeptics should note that web-apps already work this way and it's a lovely model. You don't need to pay extra to load version 2.0 of a website. If it worked that way, it would suck for everyone, even more so when the underlying technology is changing fast (HTML, CSS, browsers, etc).

Re: Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

#26

Post by josephlord »

fpgeek wrote: post #18
josephlord wrote: post #11

I think with iOS 7 and Mavericks it will be possible to do upgrade pricing because of the new features in the receipts which critically include initial purchase date. With that you can offer an in-app purchase to upgrade to the new version features to customers who bought before a certain date and provide them automatically to those who bought after the date. Note that I have not tested this or even studied the API i…

You're missing the point. It's not about what is technically feasible. Omni Group didn't have technical issues implementing their upgrade solution and it contradicted no policy that they were aware of at the time. Nevertheless, Apple decided that they didn't like it and shut them down. They might do the exact same thing to an app that simulated upgrades via in-app purchases. Developers have been asking for upgrade pr…

Yes actually if I needed to do upgrade pricing. The solution from Omni involved enabling/encouraging purchase of digital goods outside the App Store which is one of Apple's brightest red lines in their App Store rules. The solution that I propose is completely within the App Store system and Apple still get their 30%.

If I was planning to use the approach I would reread their guidelines first with the specific plan in mind to check there was nothing preventing it but I wouldn't expect to find it (if you do know of a specific clause please let me know).

Re: Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

#27

Post by fpgeek »

josephlord wrote: post #26
fpgeek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. It's not about what is technically feasible. Omni Group didn't have technical issues implementing their upgrade solution and it contradicted no policy that they were aware of at the time. Nevertheless, Apple decided that they didn't like it and shut them down. They might do the exact same thing to an app that simulated upgrades via in-app purchases. Developers have been asking for upgrade pr…

Yes actually if I needed to do upgrade pricing. The solution from Omni involved enabling/encouraging purchase of digital goods outside the App Store which is one of Apple's brightest red lines in their App Store rules. The solution that I propose is completely within the App Store system and Apple still get their 30%. If I was planning to use the approach I would reread their guidelines first with the specific plan i…

Given that Omni would love to offer upgrade pricing on Apple's App Store, I don't think outside it or the 30% were the barrier. In fact, I'd be more than a bit surprised if Omni hadn't suggested the alternatives like OmniKeyMaster as a paid app.

Re: Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

#28

Post by josephlord »

fpgeek wrote: post #27
josephlord wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes actually if I needed to do upgrade pricing. The solution from Omni involved enabling/encouraging purchase of digital goods outside the App Store which is one of Apple's brightest red lines in their App Store rules. The solution that I propose is completely within the App Store system and Apple still get their 30%. If I was planning to use the approach I would reread their guidelines first with the specific plan i…

Given that Omni would love to offer upgrade pricing on Apple's App Store, I don't think outside it or the 30% were the barrier. In fact, I'd be more than a bit surprised if Omni hadn't suggested the alternatives like OmniKeyMaster as a paid app.

It still sent users outside the store to get the content which I guess is frowned up (I can't be bothered to look at the MAS guidelines). As I said the feature required yet isn't available until Mavericks is released.

Re: Is It Time For Apple To Update App Store Pricing Rules?

#29

Post by Karunamon »

fpgeek wrote: post #19
aroch wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you've built and signed your app with your dev cert gatekeeper will open it with no scary warning -- no? That's always been my experience at least

Assuming that the OS is set to permit developer-signed apps. That's the default for now. If the Mac moves further in the direction of iOS, it might not stay that way.

Even then I don't feel too good about it. You're still relying on Apple's good graces to keep them from revoking your cert.
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