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Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

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Re: Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

#91
post #75
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diablo 3 wasn't hard at launch. It was so trivially easy that the first run through the game was considered the 'tutorial level' - the entire game was considered tutorial. I played at a friend's place and was utterly bored by how easy that first run-through was. I don't understand complaints of difficulty, though admittedly I abandoned the entire mindspace of D3 just because it was so mindbogglingly easy. Why would I…

have you actually played Inferno difficulty pre-1.03?! it was just downright frustrating because everything after Act 2 one-shots your character!

No, because to get to that level of difficulty, you have to run through the game on 'stupid dumb easy' first.

I don't really understand complaints of difficulty when you've already experienced the game several times, and then when you pick the 'really, this is crazily hard' setting, it's too hard.

Re: Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

#92
post #23
post #8

So, I have a bit of a personal episode here I'd like to share. I played a lot of Diablo 2, more than I care to admit, and so the launch of Diablo 3 was a really big deal to me. I pre-ordered it on day 1, I pre-installed the game weeks before launch and I read every piece of information about the game. When the game came out, I initially loved it; just an absolute pleasure to play. It was great, until I found the auct…

The lesson, applicable to games, startups, governance, and indeed systems engineering in general, is that systems react . You can not look at an existing system, then say "Ah, this system is doing X, so I shall do Y which will cause the result Z, and nothing else ." In this case, you can't look at the D2 community, and say, "Ah ha, I shall inject this system for extracting money, and therefore it shall be exactly lik…

> This is truly one of the gaping holes in human cognition, this idea that a single participant in a larger system can make a change and then model the results of that change without accounting for the reactions of all the other actors

The parent's sentiment may be a tired old theme in the context of a game company that produces a long-awaited sequel to a much-beloved classic, meddles too much with the winning formula, and ends up killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, but I feel that this idea needs more airtime in politics.

The best, surest way to get a complex system that works is to begin with a simple system that works and make a series of many incremental changes.

This should be a fundamental axiom in politics -- that anything you do, from creating a top-secret surveillance agency, to sweeping healthcare reform, to the war on drugs, to the legalization of gay marriage, is not guaranteed to have the effect its creators intended, at the magnitude they intended, without any other potentially larger effects, some of which may range from undesirable to catastrophic.

Therefore, when possible small and simple changes should be made, and we should think twice before proposing complex changes, and ponder three times again before implementing them. It's the only possible way to avoid getting buried under a relentless onslaught of unexpected consequences.

Not enough people are even talking about this idea. AFAICT it's neither conservative nor liberal nor libertarian; it's literally conservative in the sense of "we don't understand the problem space very well outside the status quo, so let's take care not to get too far away from the familiar in case we fall into a hole we can't climb back out of." Imagine a decades-old project which gets dozens to hundreds of commits a year, but whose authors always reject any commits smaller than 1000 lines of code. What's surprising isn't that it contains bugs, what's surprising is that the end result does anything resembling what it's supposed to.

Re: Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

#93
post #17
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the only purpose of playing was to kill things for the best drops which is not different from what people were doing on Diablo II for ages.

You truncated what he said. He qualified it with "that you could sell on the auction house", which is exceptionally important. Grinding bosses for drops to build the character that you want offers great direct feedback - you kill the boss 84 times, and he finally drops the thing you've been looking for. The reward is tangible and exciting. Compare to the AH structure, where it's basically "well, I'll grind for things…

>you kill the boss 84 times, and he finally drops the thing you've been looking for. The reward is tangible and exciting.

It feels exciting. Grinding the same boss 84 times. Where do I sign up?

Re: Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

#94
post #75
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diablo 3 wasn't hard at launch. It was so trivially easy that the first run through the game was considered the 'tutorial level' - the entire game was considered tutorial. I played at a friend's place and was utterly bored by how easy that first run-through was. I don't understand complaints of difficulty, though admittedly I abandoned the entire mindspace of D3 just because it was so mindbogglingly easy. Why would I…

have you actually played Inferno difficulty pre-1.03?! it was just downright frustrating because everything after Act 2 one-shots your character!

I haven't played since 1.02 (?), in which I was mopping the floor with standard mobs in Inferno Act 1, but couldn't kill any special mobs at all (in my memory they all seemed to have molten, arcane, fire-chains and vortex modifiers)

Re: Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

#95
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You truncated what he said. He qualified it with "that you could sell on the auction house", which is exceptionally important. Grinding bosses for drops to build the character that you want offers great direct feedback - you kill the boss 84 times, and he finally drops the thing you've been looking for. The reward is tangible and exciting. Compare to the AH structure, where it's basically "well, I'll grind for things…

>you kill the boss 84 times, and he finally drops the thing you've been looking for. The reward is tangible and exciting. It feels exciting. Grinding the same boss 84 times. Where do I sign up?

That's loot grinders. If you don't like grinding for loot, then the genre probably isn't for you.

Re: Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

#96

Fuck Blizzard. I will never forgive them for the cashgrab they called D3 I don't care how they change it.

How is this attitude rational?

I can't understand how people react like this. Is it left over anger from when the situation was in the undesirable configuration? Can they not see how their opinions have had an influence in something they're passionate about?

I can't see how someone who wanted this to happen would consider Blizzard to be still in the wrong.

Re: Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

#98
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lesson, applicable to games, startups, governance, and indeed systems engineering in general, is that systems react . You can not look at an existing system, then say "Ah, this system is doing X, so I shall do Y which will cause the result Z, and nothing else ." In this case, you can't look at the D2 community, and say, "Ah ha, I shall inject this system for extracting money, and therefore it shall be exactly lik…

This is so spot on. Someone asked me when we would run out of oil, my answer, "Never". "Never?!" they spat out, but look at how quickly we use it, look at how finite a resource it is, Etc. And I replied, as it gets rare, the price will go up, as the price goes up other things will be substituted, as they are substituted the demand will go down. Demand goes down and the time to exhaustion stretches out. Long tail curv…

eve style?

Re: Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

#99
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is fine, IMO. Removing the AH as a crux of gameplay design is the important thing here. Trade isn't inherently bad, but building the entire game around trade (and more specifically, trying to build the game around incentivizing people to trade through your system for real currency of which you get a cut) is a really crappy thing to do to a loot grinder.

Do you have any sources which confirm that Blizzard built the game around AH monetization? I see this claim made frequently, but I've never actually seen anything that wasn't pure speculation.

They've never explicitly said "Yeah, we built to game to try to juice as much out of you through the RMAH" if that's what you're asking. It's pretty clear if you actually played the game, though. The game was tuned, both in terms of difficulty and drops, with the expectation that the player would be using the AH[1], and Blizzard built the RMAH in order to attempt to capitalize upon the sales that previously happened through D2JSP or whatnot.

It's exceptionally clear that Blizzard's idea was to control scarcity of desirable items so that people were incentivized to buy and sell these most desirable items for real money, giving Blizzard their 15% cut on every sale. We have a scenario in which the same entity that brokers sales (for a fee!) is the same entity that (arbitrarily) controls the production of items sold -- it doesn't take an MBA to connect the dots there.

No, I can't prove any of this. I would be exceptionally surprised if anyone could. But companies of Blizzard's scale don't do things like a real-money marketplace (from which they take broker's fees) just because "the community demands it" - that absolutely was the monetization strategy for the game. People don't pay a subscription fee, or purchase microtransaction items in the traditional sense. How else are you going to monetize it?

(They had a similar monetization strategy for Starcraft 2, IIRC. Something about a marketplace for community-created content that, again, they would take a cut of. Let the players do the work, take a cut of it. I don't play SC2, so I'm not sure how this shook out.)

[1] http://i48.tinypic.com/2cwsg3q.png (sorry, original thread is now gone)

Re: Diablo 3 to permanently remove its auction houses in March 2014

#100
While I broadly speaking applaud this move, I do feel a little bit like the guys from blizzard need to eat just a little bit of humble pie.

'this is really exciting for us'?

really?

how about, 'we're really sorry we took a franchise you loved and set fire to it, and are now really concerned about the viability of the expansion we're making'

Too late; I'll play torchlight thanks.

You have a nice diablo romp over there. You've lost my support; I no longer have confidence the team on diablo 3 can deliver a game I actually want to play.

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