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Dear USA, my data has left your building

cpbotha.net

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Re: Dear USA, my data has left your building

#91

Post by einhverfr »

josefresco wrote: post #65
cpbotha wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear USA, You are probably correct. My point is that I can make it slightly more complicated for you to sniff around in my data, and that was the whole point of this move. If more people do this, it will get progressively harder for you to do your mass surveillance job as you do it now. I'm sorry I had to leave you, cpbotha

If you think the USA is alone in their desire to surveille you're going to have a rough time around the world. The USA had the means, but the will is there worldwide.

This is true, but outside of the US, China, and probably Europe, few countries' governments have the money to do this or the priorities to do it.

Re: Dear USA, my data has left your building

#93

Post by bjourne »

mseebach wrote: post #81
jacquesm wrote: post #7

Nitpickers aside (yes, what they had they may still have or at least in digest form) this is a single instance of a tidal wave of people doing this. EU datacenters are doing quite well because of the NSA revelations. The economic impact of this could very well counteract any net plus the US had while they were able to spy at will. Likely it's not going to be the same parties that will end up footing the bill. The pra…

European chest-beating in the wake of the NSA revelations is fairly hypocritical. The difference between the US and the EU is that in the US, the snooping was icky, secret and very possibly illegal. In the EU, it's done out in the open, required by law: According to the directive, member states will have to store citizens' telecommunications data for six to 24 months stipulating a maximum time period. Under the direc…

It's more about pragmatism than hypocracy. Everyone in Europe has a lot to win on painting the US as the bad guys and themselves as innocent. Major European tech firms are going to play this story very hard to gain fat government contracts rather than their American competitors. That's what might change things, when profits are being hurt politicians are very quick to act.

Re: Dear USA, my data has left your building

#95

Post by coldtea »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #75
scrrr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greenwald somewhere mentioned that there's material for months to come if I am not mistaken. So besides that he's doing a good job (agreed), I think Snowden simply provided a huge amount of information.

If there really is months more worth of information I wonder if the public, US or otherwise (as we find more countries with intelligence agencies working as accessories), will experience outrage fatigue. I guess it will depend on how bad each revelation is but I could easily imagine a lot people picking the one revelation that really bothered them and then framing all others relative to that: "they're doing Y too? Wh…

>I wonder if the public, US or otherwise (as we find more countries with intelligence agencies working as accessories), will experience outrage fatigue.

That's a valid concern about something which I consider the most disgusting stance a citizen could have.

As if news and outrage are supposed to be novel and entertaining. It shows that those who feel that way are not active citizens of a democracy, but passive couch potatoes, overstimulated with media BS and their own private affairs, and unable to think or act to better their country and communities.

Consider the enormity of using the same excuse for black rights ("Jim Crow laws? Seggregation? Who cares about this, didn't we already have a civil war and a KKK discussion for so many years?") or anything that took time to fix.

Re: Dear USA, my data has left your building

#96

Post by bayesianhorse »

I don't believe that there is enough information yet to take action, for example moving data out of US Datacenters. Too little is know about what the NSA is actually doing with the stuff, what they do and don't have access to, and what kind of risks businesses are incurring as a result.

The most important question is whether or not the NSA or other agencies in the US are actively committing industrial espionage, meaning not only that they are spying on foreign companies but also passing on data to US competitors.

Re: Dear USA, my data has left your building

#97

Post by criley2 »

bjourne wrote: post #93
mseebach wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European chest-beating in the wake of the NSA revelations is fairly hypocritical. The difference between the US and the EU is that in the US, the snooping was icky, secret and very possibly illegal. In the EU, it's done out in the open, required by law: According to the directive, member states will have to store citizens' telecommunications data for six to 24 months stipulating a maximum time period. Under the direc…

It's more about pragmatism than hypocracy. Everyone in Europe has a lot to win on painting the US as the bad guys and themselves as innocent. Major European tech firms are going to play this story very hard to gain fat government contracts rather than their American competitors. That's what might change things, when profits are being hurt politicians are very quick to act.

Short sighted pragmatism.

As Europeans turn against Americans (or more precisely, non-Anglos turn against the Anglosphere/Five Eyes), the West begins to fracture precisely as the East begins to rise again with force.

It's going to be an interesting decade.

Re: Dear USA, my data has left your building

#98

Post by uptown »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #75
scrrr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greenwald somewhere mentioned that there's material for months to come if I am not mistaken. So besides that he's doing a good job (agreed), I think Snowden simply provided a huge amount of information.

If there really is months more worth of information I wonder if the public, US or otherwise (as we find more countries with intelligence agencies working as accessories), will experience outrage fatigue. I guess it will depend on how bad each revelation is but I could easily imagine a lot people picking the one revelation that really bothered them and then framing all others relative to that: "they're doing Y too? Wh…

"I wonder if the public, US or otherwise (as we find more countries with intelligence agencies working as accessories), will experience outrage fatigue."

Unfortunately, I fear the mainstream mindset towards this issue will hinge on how the major political candidates in the 2016 election choose to frame the issue. If there's widespread consensus from the leading Presidential candidates in both parties that this is not an issue - then the mainstream populous is likely to get in-line with that mindset in-support of "their" candidate.

I hope the public perception of these issues doesn't get dumbed down to political-party allegiance, but I fear it may be the case.

Re: Dear USA, my data has left your building

#99

Post by ubergesundheit »

frank_boyd wrote: post #62

> On my Android telephone (whoops…) I am using the Kaiten IMAP client. Check out: http://www.ubuntu.com/phone Devices supported: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices Currently, the Galaxy Nexus seems to be the best option; see its hardware support progress here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArLs7UPtu-hJdDZ... (column "Maguro")

Even better: Firefox OS

Re: Dear USA, my data has left your building

#100

Post by reustle »

tokenizer wrote: post #76
plg wrote: post #68

"My webhoster (WebFaction) receives mail for all my domains. My Synology retrieves mail every 5 minutes via POP (you can set this up via Roundcube on the Synology) and deletes it from WebFaction." but even if you can delete your mail from your mailhost after downloading it to your private machine, isn't the point that the NSA probably collected the email before it even hit your mailhost?

I think you're right. Even moving your mail or web server to another country won't help deter the actual collection with prism. However, I think responses like this create tension between the companies agreeing to give their information, and the government. If google, yahoo, and facebook start to lose money they might potentially fight legislation like this going forward and may advocate in reverting these policies.

This is probably the biggest thing we need to work towards. Sure, leaving gmail might be painful and it might not really help us out in the end (regarding preventing spying) but hurting the big players enough for them to move into offense mode is a great scenario.
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