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Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

genericmaker.com

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Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#51

So far I've not heard "this can't be done." All I've heard is "I don't know how this might be done." Huge difference there. I also hear a fair bit of "this shouldn't be done", which I find incredibly disappointing. Here's a hypothetical: we already know how to do noisy, shared-media device interconnects. It's called 802.11. Look at the size of wifi adapters: you can get a usable signal that works over meters from som…

The core problem is basic math: X+Y > X. (For positive values, of course.)

Modern phones are marvels of stripping away everything not completely necessary, with the result that they're the size they are. Adding modularity means adding enclosures around the modules, which adds size and weight - and for something as small as a phone, practical physical limits of enclosures add up to a non-trivial increase in size. Separability between two components means adding shielding, casing, air gaps, etc for each module, to just (say) have a removable battery means at least 2mm greater size - not trivial when the whole device is less than 10mm thick.

Should you accept that additional volume & mass (and cost) required to implement any degree of modularity, you're faced with the tradeoff: would you rather have significantly greater performance instead? You could apply that aforementioned 2mm to 50% more battery, or quadrupling storage, or etc.; which is more desirable, a replaceable battery or a longer lasting one? Most customers would prefer more performance.

To your thoughtful point of solving the problem instead of complaining at it, consider that the phones are reaching the limits of physical and computational need/usability: with continued miniaturization of all components, we can free up enough space within the device to apply it to lower-priority use such as modularity and optical interconnections.

Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#52

So far I've not heard "this can't be done." All I've heard is "I don't know how this might be done." Huge difference there. I also hear a fair bit of "this shouldn't be done", which I find incredibly disappointing. Here's a hypothetical: we already know how to do noisy, shared-media device interconnects. It's called 802.11. Look at the size of wifi adapters: you can get a usable signal that works over meters from som…

The point of the article isn't really "this can't be done"; but "if this is done, it's inferior to a non-modular phone". Even perfectly functioning modular plugins take up extra space - a "classic" phone can instead either be smaller/thinner, or put in a bit extra battery in those cubicmillimetres; which both make the "same" phone better. Modularity imposes a cost, it's a tradeoff - and even for laptops we're seeing…

>The point of the article isn't really "this can't be done"; but "if this is done, it's inferior to a non-modular phone".

And it's only inferior if you choose to look at it through that lens. As far as I can see, the idea is that modularity brings its own benefits, which, for some people, might outweigh the perceived disadvantages. If someone's already decided they'd never be in the market for a modular phone because they don't want that inherent tradeoff, what point is there in being negative about how that modularity is achieved?

> even for laptops we're seeing that people tend to prefer a bit of size/weight/battery life rather than modularity.

Applied to phones, size? Maybe. There's a place in the world for a Samsung Note, so I wouldn't write it off on those grounds. Weight? Arguably. Battery life? Beyond a threshold of about 18 hours, a vast number of people demonstrably don't care.

If I were to pick an obvious problem point, it's simply that the hardware is bound to be more expensive for a given set of functionality.

> Modularity imposes a cost, it's a tradeoff

Yes. That's exactly it. It's a tradeoff which some people may find it worth making.

Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#53
post #22

This is one of those ideas that look good on paper (or youtube) but just isn't practical. There's absolutely no spare space in a modern phone. If you make it modular, each 'module' has to have enough space for its component, PLUS space to bring it up to the next module size. This will make the phone HUGE. The concept of an upgradable device is, however, great. Just not in the manufacturer's interest. Apple lose out i…

What if Motorola so that next storage upgrade or screen? And modern desktops are built to be modular from the start. Why not have a motherboard in form factor of a smart phone device.

Desktops are modular because the high price components used to have. Look at manufacturers now and you'll see a trend towards non-modular designs (iMac, Vaios,…)

This is not a scheme to take your money, BTW. Most of the consumers wont upgrade any part of the PC during their lifetime, so you are being held back in design and build quality by a feature only a fraction os the population demands. By held back I don't just mean design wise, although is one of the main advantages. You have to support legacy ports, slower buses, etc...

By going to non-modular designs, you can make better use of the space. The tradeoffs are big, especially on laptops (increased battery life), and more so in mobile.

Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#54

So far I've not heard "this can't be done." All I've heard is "I don't know how this might be done." Huge difference there. I also hear a fair bit of "this shouldn't be done", which I find incredibly disappointing. Here's a hypothetical: we already know how to do noisy, shared-media device interconnects. It's called 802.11. Look at the size of wifi adapters: you can get a usable signal that works over meters from som…

The core problem is basic math: X+Y > X. (For positive values, of course.) Modern phones are marvels of stripping away everything not completely necessary, with the result that they're the size they are. Adding modularity means adding enclosures around the modules, which adds size and weight - and for something as small as a phone, practical physical limits of enclosures add up to a non-trivial increase in size. Sepa…

I totally take your point about the tradeoff, but that's the point, isn't it? For the people who don't fit into the "customers who prefer more performance" bucket (for instance), or any of the other buckets that can be served by a modular approach, where do they turn? How do we get there from here? It's at least worth looking at the map.

Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#55
I love to see people using the words like " this will never happen" like they could predict the future in any way. So many have been proven wrong over the years, I wont be surprised if this author is proven wrong again. This might not be possible now, with today's technology, just like 10 years ago it wasn't possible to have a computer in your pocket with multiple GHz cores and GB of RAM.

Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#56
post #43
post #25

> the stated motivation for this design is to reduce electrical waste. The best way to do that in the short term is to ensure devices are more repairable Right, a replaceable screen and battery and an SD card slot would get you 99% of the features you'd actually want from phonebloks, and it's actually something that would be achievable (if there were demand, which I think is the biggest problem here: there's just no…

A replaceable battery, SD card and easily replaceable screens were all features of phones available more than 5 years ago, yet these features disappeared because the iPhone showed that most consumers don't value those features over a sleek integrated lifestyle product. Besides all points mentioned already, I just can't think of a way to protect the pin-connection from wear in daily use without adding an additional sh…

iPhone showed that most consumers don't value those features over a sleek integrated lifestyle product.

Consumers have no acess to bid on the incremental value of features. There is no supply side market for these. There is no market because apple is playing monopolist (legal). Lets not use sloppy language !!

Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#57

So far I've not heard "this can't be done." All I've heard is "I don't know how this might be done." Huge difference there. I also hear a fair bit of "this shouldn't be done", which I find incredibly disappointing. Here's a hypothetical: we already know how to do noisy, shared-media device interconnects. It's called 802.11. Look at the size of wifi adapters: you can get a usable signal that works over meters from som…

An engineer will rarely tell you that something is impossible. Ask an engineer to build a bridge across the pacific ocean. The response you get will not be "this can't be done", but "the costs involved make it impractical".

It's similar to this phone idea. Of course a modular phone can be built, but the trade offs involved make it impracticle.

Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#58
You know... SK Telecom, in South Korea just announced speeds of over 200Mbps for mobile data. I believe that speed tends to increase over time. We will get to a point where smartphones will just become dumb terminals, using resources from a "cloud". We are talking years from now, but that could easily become the next big leap, IMHO.

Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#59
post #56
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A replaceable battery, SD card and easily replaceable screens were all features of phones available more than 5 years ago, yet these features disappeared because the iPhone showed that most consumers don't value those features over a sleek integrated lifestyle product. Besides all points mentioned already, I just can't think of a way to protect the pin-connection from wear in daily use without adding an additional sh…

iPhone showed that most consumers don't value those features over a sleek integrated lifestyle product. Consumers have no acess to bid on the incremental value of features. There is no supply side market for these. There is no market because apple is playing monopolist (legal). Lets not use sloppy language !!

> apple is playing monopolist

what? how does apple have a monopoly?

Re: Why Phonebloks Will Never Happen

#60
post #58

You know... SK Telecom, in South Korea just announced speeds of over 200Mbps for mobile data. I believe that speed tends to increase over time. We will get to a point where smartphones will just become dumb terminals, using resources from a "cloud". We are talking years from now, but that could easily become the next big leap, IMHO.

Latency is going to the hurdle there. You can have the fastest connection in the world but if it takes 400ms to pull up someone's contact info, no one is going to give a fuck.
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