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Drug addiction: The complex truth

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Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#101

Post by stephengillie »

BashiBazouk wrote: post #58
AznHisoka wrote: post #23

We should not look towards drugs to satisfy the void in our lives. We should not look to eating for pleasure, just for health. We should not look to our career as a source of fulfillment - it's just a means to an end. We should not look to our mates as a source of salvation - we should focus on giving. We should not look to our kids as objects to make us whole - we should focus on giving... Ok, so if we're gonna take…

Moderation in everything including abstinence and excess. You should not look at any of these as a sole path but enjoy all of them in moderation.

I moderate my moderation. :)

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#102

Post by vinceguidry »

jesushorse wrote: post #98
NotAnEngineer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the rule, not the exception, among addicts. Every recovery program (12-step or not) emphasizes that drugs are not a drug addict's only problem. Obviously they are a very destructive part of the problem, but every addict who stops using long enough learns that -- surprise! -- they're still a self-centered, fear-driven, manipulative, obsessive person. That stuff doesn't just go away when you stop using; if anyt…

Yes, and almost every program I've seen people go through has tried to force them to "accept jesus as their savior". That's where they fail.

Religious practice can be remarkably effective at curing afflictions of the mind including depression and addiction. I knew a guy who recounted his story of being continuously depressed, addicted to everything he could get his hands on. One day he, on a whim, walked into a church, and was instantly cured of everything. Now he can hold a job, work towards a future. Doesn't go to AA meetings, doesn't need to. It's like God flipped a switch in his brain, is the way he described it. You'd think a guy like that would be preaching God from the rooftops, but he doesn't. He's real chill, easygoing.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#103

Post by dclowd9901 »

jere wrote: post #87
larrys wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my observation and knowledge over time I think your statement "prone to addictive behavior to begin with" is correct. That said I'm not reading what you are saying the OP is possibly suggesting at all. He says: "One of my relatives, for example, managed to get herself off of drinking and smoking completely and was in counseling. The addictions, and the kinds of behaviors that come with maintaining addictions (al…

>Strange thing was, after removing the substance, the behaviors persisted. This part. Seems an odd thing to say if you knew the person had addictive behavior before... perhaps I'm misreading it.

How would you know if they had an addictive personality if there wasn't a pattern of addictive behaviors?

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#104

Post by Retric »

vinceguidry wrote: post #102
jesushorse wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and almost every program I've seen people go through has tried to force them to "accept jesus as their savior". That's where they fail.

Religious practice can be remarkably effective at curing afflictions of the mind including depression and addiction. I knew a guy who recounted his story of being continuously depressed, addicted to everything he could get his hands on. One day he, on a whim, walked into a church, and was instantly cured of everything. Now he can hold a job, work towards a future. Doesn't go to AA meetings, doesn't need to. It's like…

I have met several people addicted to religion. It's socially accepted and can fill the needs of some people vary well, but it can also be just as destructive as heroin.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#105

Post by bane »

1337biz wrote: post #62
bane wrote: post #38

Like lots of folks I drink a bit, and I smoke the occasional celebratory cigar. I'm fortunate to not have found myself addicted to anything though (that I'm aware of at least). However, I have family members who have deep addiction problems. Life affecting. One thing that I've noticed is that even when they get off of the substance, the addictive personality traits are still there -- years later. One of my relatives,…

For example, she found a puzzle game on her phone that she would play obsessively Actually an interesting observation on how difficult it is to draw the line between obsession and passion. It seems that she (can devlop) an extremely high level of focus, something that what would probably regarded by many as a trait for becoming successful in a specific discipline.

I almost agree with you, but there's a qualitative difference between obsession and focus just like addiction vs. dedication.

Focus/Dedication is something you can choose to do, it's a tool you can use (though some people's tools work better than others). When you need to stop you can and then move onto other things.

Obsession is something that controls you, you are the tool being used, and when it's time to move on the obsession continues to control you keeping you under its thumb.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#106

Post by drivebyacct2 »

delluminatus wrote: post #45
AznHisoka wrote: post #23

We should not look towards drugs to satisfy the void in our lives. We should not look to eating for pleasure, just for health. We should not look to our career as a source of fulfillment - it's just a means to an end. We should not look to our mates as a source of salvation - we should focus on giving. We should not look to our kids as objects to make us whole - we should focus on giving... Ok, so if we're gonna take…

This is the real question. I think there are only three choice categories: * Reject everything. This is basically the path of the Yogi. * Assign meaning to something. It could be your kids, your spouse (I wouldn't recommend that one), philanthropy, a "vision," or whatever. If people ask why it's important to you, don't explain in logical terms. "I decided that it would be." * Stop thinking about it. Chase the dopamin…

>* Stop thinking about it. Chase the dopamine. I think most people do this, even the most thoughtful people. It might even be impossible to escape attachment and emotion.

6 months of on and off hard depression for over-analyzing life and myself and getting trapped in deep meta-rabbit-holes, I decided to stop. It's hard, as anyone whose been depressed knows, mind over matter is easier said than done....

But man, people around me getting worked up about all sorts of things and want to have these lofty discussions about making the best of life. I want to be happy today. And tomorrow. So I'm doing what is making me happy now and will enable me to maximize my happiness going forward.

I don't know if I'm still "controlling" it, but it's a simple mental model and it helps me to focus on when my anxiety decides to spike through the roof as I'm sitting surfing reddit in the evening.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#107

Post by drivebyacct2 »

rwmj wrote: post #5

Does anyone really think "one try ... is enough to get us hooked"? They can't know any overt functional drug users if that's the case. Cocaine in particular isn't instantly addictive. If anything on the few occasions I've used it, it actively put me off.

This is eye-opening to me. Another victim of DARE. I've been "enlightened" on cannabis and psychadelics but I still but the rest of them in a "Stay away! High risk of dependence/abuse." category.

Oh well, I'm pretty happy with vaping a bag or two in the evening and going out on Fridays and trying to you know, eat decently the rest of the week.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#108

Post by delluminatus »

codyb wrote: post #75
delluminatus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the real question. I think there are only three choice categories: * Reject everything. This is basically the path of the Yogi. * Assign meaning to something. It could be your kids, your spouse (I wouldn't recommend that one), philanthropy, a "vision," or whatever. If people ask why it's important to you, don't explain in logical terms. "I decided that it would be." * Stop thinking about it. Chase the dopamin…

Why do you recommend not assigning meaning to your spouse? I think the Yogi is eventually one with it. He doesn't try any of the methods you offered. Controlling it, embracing it, or rejecting it. He just let's it be. And in that way he becomes free from it.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, people are taking a big risk by making their spouse a critical source of meaning in their life. I think the problem is that it's reliant on reciprocation, whereas the others aren't (except children to some extent).

With respect to your comment on the yogi: note that most yogi follow some number of vows [0] and abstentions [1] that seem to me to be very much an attempt at "controlling it." Eventually I guess they don't need to "control it" anymore, once they reach Samadhi, but in practice the path of the Yogi is typically one of repression.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamas

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niyama

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#109

Post by Alex3917 »

dusklight wrote: post #88
NotAnEngineer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the rule, not the exception, among addicts. Every recovery program (12-step or not) emphasizes that drugs are not a drug addict's only problem. Obviously they are a very destructive part of the problem, but every addict who stops using long enough learns that -- surprise! -- they're still a self-centered, fear-driven, manipulative, obsessive person. That stuff doesn't just go away when you stop using; if anyt…

That's very interesting. Do you think addicts already have those personality traits from before they became addicted, or the traits developed as a result of the addiction?

Most addicts are abused (or experience comparable longterm stress) as children, which causes brain damage, which leads to addiction. There is a certain genetic component also, but it mostly has to do with your childhood.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#110

Post by hesdeadjim »

jesushorse wrote: post #98
NotAnEngineer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the rule, not the exception, among addicts. Every recovery program (12-step or not) emphasizes that drugs are not a drug addict's only problem. Obviously they are a very destructive part of the problem, but every addict who stops using long enough learns that -- surprise! -- they're still a self-centered, fear-driven, manipulative, obsessive person. That stuff doesn't just go away when you stop using; if anyt…

Yes, and almost every program I've seen people go through has tried to force them to "accept jesus as their savior". That's where they fail.

It's unfortunate that this has been your experience. Where I am from recovery groups are as hand-off when it comes to personal religious/spiritual/atheistic beliefs as they can be. I've never once had someone try to push a set of beliefs on me, and I am grateful they haven't tried as that would have pushed me out of recovery faster than anything.
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