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Drug addiction: The complex truth

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Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#91
post #38

Like lots of folks I drink a bit, and I smoke the occasional celebratory cigar. I'm fortunate to not have found myself addicted to anything though (that I'm aware of at least). However, I have family members who have deep addiction problems. Life affecting. One thing that I've noticed is that even when they get off of the substance, the addictive personality traits are still there -- years later. One of my relatives,…

Pretty sure you are addicted to oxygen. You are probably addicted to hackernews also. This is not meant to be a banal comment. Addiction is not necessarily a bad thing. You could be addicted to hard work, for example. You could be addicted to your family. Being so addicted to your family that you would be willing to die in order to protect them is not necessarily a bad thing.

Addiction or dependence or obsession is usually defined as a behavior that causes negative consequences for the individual that they would prefer to avoid.

In that case, oxygen and protecting your family would not be regarded as addictions.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the rule, not the exception, among addicts. Every recovery program (12-step or not) emphasizes that drugs are not a drug addict's only problem. Obviously they are a very destructive part of the problem, but every addict who stops using long enough learns that -- surprise! -- they're still a self-centered, fear-driven, manipulative, obsessive person. That stuff doesn't just go away when you stop using; if anyt…

That's very interesting. Do you think addicts already have those personality traits from before they became addicted, or the traits developed as a result of the addiction?

From anecdotal experience I would say that behavior is __always__ first.

I can even think of more than one person of top of my head that is obsessive about stuff and does not consume drugs.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#93
post #38

Like lots of folks I drink a bit, and I smoke the occasional celebratory cigar. I'm fortunate to not have found myself addicted to anything though (that I'm aware of at least). However, I have family members who have deep addiction problems. Life affecting. One thing that I've noticed is that even when they get off of the substance, the addictive personality traits are still there -- years later. One of my relatives,…

Pretty sure you are addicted to oxygen. You are probably addicted to hackernews also. This is not meant to be a banal comment. Addiction is not necessarily a bad thing. You could be addicted to hard work, for example. You could be addicted to your family. Being so addicted to your family that you would be willing to die in order to protect them is not necessarily a bad thing.

Addiction isn't typically construed as mere dependence or devotion. Our taboo of addiction stems from the negative consequences of maintaining the object of dependence.

Forsaking all news sources except HN is narrow-minded, but not a good example of addiction. Spending hours refreshing, and replying to all the comments to the point where you are neglecting other responsibilities: addiction.

edit: oops, redundant reply because I had this open for 30 min & didn't refresh before replying.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#94
post #55
post #48

Anything that has to be spread to "The Masses" through marketing, propaganda or public education campaigns need a simple message to work. Simple, clear, strong messages with no room for debate. Just say no. Just Do it. The Real Thing. Exaggeration is absolutely essential if you want to get people to react. You cannot rely on reality to provide the necessary frightening statistics. So for example, almost everyone (inc…

And yet many times when savvy people notice that they are being lied to they discount the entire message and can end up engaging in more destructive behavior than they would have otherwise. Public health messaging should never contain exagerations or lies even of ommision.

You have a strange standard for 'savvy' people.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#96
post #69
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nice try, but data are by definition intangible

Nope, synonym for tangible is factual, data is by definition factual: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data http://www.thefreedictionary.com/data Definition of tangible: -substantially real , material -capable of being precisely identified or realized by the mind -capable of being appraised at an actual or approximate

We must have different dictionaries - to me tangible means perceptible by touch. But since language is defined by usage, I accept your broader definition.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tangible?q=...

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#97
post #38

Like lots of folks I drink a bit, and I smoke the occasional celebratory cigar. I'm fortunate to not have found myself addicted to anything though (that I'm aware of at least). However, I have family members who have deep addiction problems. Life affecting. One thing that I've noticed is that even when they get off of the substance, the addictive personality traits are still there -- years later. One of my relatives,…

Is this post a joke, or are people actually so completely out of touch with reality that they become "rabid nicotine junkies", and their families see them as in need of help?

Has she been robbing people to pay for her habit? Selling herself?

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#98
post #38

Like lots of folks I drink a bit, and I smoke the occasional celebratory cigar. I'm fortunate to not have found myself addicted to anything though (that I'm aware of at least). However, I have family members who have deep addiction problems. Life affecting. One thing that I've noticed is that even when they get off of the substance, the addictive personality traits are still there -- years later. One of my relatives,…

This is the rule, not the exception, among addicts. Every recovery program (12-step or not) emphasizes that drugs are not a drug addict's only problem. Obviously they are a very destructive part of the problem, but every addict who stops using long enough learns that -- surprise! -- they're still a self-centered, fear-driven, manipulative, obsessive person. That stuff doesn't just go away when you stop using; if anyt…

Yes, and almost every program I've seen people go through has tried to force them to "accept jesus as their savior". That's where they fail.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#99
"Drug, Set and Setting" by Norman Zinberg is another classic. Andrew Weil has talked about it (search YouTube). His thesis was on nutmeg as an addictive drug. Almost anything can be addictive given the right setting.

"Addiction is a Choice" by Jeffrey Schaler. Saying it is a choice is not at all meant to cast blame, but to emphasize that to use drugs is a choice given one's life circumstances, and is influenced by many variables. To focus on the drug use itself is to neglect real "problems of living" (as Thomas S. Szasz called them). By viewing it as a choice, one is also empowered to end their addiction, but it must be voluntary and not coerced by family members or the state.

I sometimes think of unhealthy addiction as being trapped in a local minimum of pain -- given limited resources, including limited personal strength to change the circumstances or environment one is in (e.g., job, marriage, housing), then addiction to a substance, or even a non-drug activity, can become a local minimum of pain, all avenues out of which produce, short-term, more pain than the status quo.

So it can be philosophically argued that addiction is a rational decision given the circumstances and the resources available. The key to successful addiction treatment is not behavior modification or "education", but providing resources so that one may escape local minima, and without punishing them for any behavior which does not harm others (hurt feelings doesn't count).

If the drug use is focused on and punished, even criminally, it never addresses the underlying issues which led to drug use being an escape from pain in the first place.

In the current system, harsh punishment for drug use, or paternalism over one's life in the name of "protecting one from himself", becomes more important than the principles of improving happiness or avoiding coercion against fellow humans.

Re: Drug addiction: The complex truth

#100
post #85
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heroin has properties attractive to people in a hopeless, brutal war beyond what they can get from bridge club. Self-medication is not exactly recreation. You should also look skeptically at claims that having unprotected sex with possible HIV carriers guarantees that you will get HIV. But you should still put a goddamn condom on.

Related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park tl:dr; Rats given access to their choice of clean water and morphine water, and placed in two enclosures: Rat cage and rat park. Rats living in a miserable rat cage will develop a morphine habit. Rats living in a pleasant rat park will avoid the morphine. Rats moved from rat cage to rat park easily kick their morphine habit after a brief period of withdrawal symptoms. tl…

That's the premise of the article we're discussing. They mention that experiment specifically.
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