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How Chris McCandless Died

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Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#71

Post by jlgreco »

scott_s wrote: post #64
jlgreco wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll go further and state that the only reason this ignorance was dangerous to him was because he stupidly put himself in a situation where it could be. Everyone should know that the wilderness can be dangerous for countless reasons, that isn't really something you can be ignorant of. Not making an effort to eliminate ignorance before putting yourself in the path of danger is stupid. Put it this way, scuba diving is…

I'm not sure you read the article. He did make an effort to reduce his ignorance. He was knowledgable on what was and was not edible. He had the same knowledge that everyone else had, prior to the investigation of his death. It is only after investigating his death that we know that eating those seeds, while in extreme caloric deficit, is dangerous.

The point is that being in a situation where eating those seeds could be dangerous in the first place was the result of stupidity.

"After subsisting for three months on a marginal diet of squirrels, porcupines, small birds, mushrooms, roots, and berries, he’d run up a huge caloric deficit and was teetering on the brink. By adding potato seeds to the menu, he apparently made the mistake that took him down. After July 30th, his physical condition went to hell, and three weeks later he was dead."

Stupidly, he remained ignorant. That ignorance resulted in a weakened state, which allowed the seeds to be dangerous.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#72

Post by jere »

billybob255 wrote: post #70
jere wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Did you even bother to read the article, which despite mentioning this detraction, has nothing to do with it? In fact, it invalidates those criticisms against McCandless.

It doesn't really invalidate them, it says that if you eat the seeds while malnourished the ODAP can kill you. It doesn't mention anything about him dying in an unforeseen accident, he went into the Alaskan bush unprepared and died of malnutrition. If he brought a map he could've walked to safety when he started to realize his plight.

>he went into the Alaskan bush unprepared and died of malnutrition. If he brought a map he could've walked to safety when he started to realize his plight.

Did you actually read the article? That's not what it says. It suggests he became paralyzed by a neurotoxin, an event which no one could have foreseen at the time. Having a map wouldn't have cured his paralysis. I'm not even convinced he was lost.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#73

Post by jere »

aaron695 wrote: post #54
runjake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This point has been rehashed again and again and again every time McCandless is mentioned. We get it . Aside from that, what is your point? Did you even bother to read the article, which despite mentioning this detraction, has nothing to do with it? Or were you just looking for easy upvotes?

But the article has no point. Well, it's point is Christopher McCandless is a celebrity, lets work out how he died. There is little science going on here, other than using science to work out how celebrity McCandless died. Image if those scientists used their knowledge for real pressing issues that affect many people. Not saying scientists should be boring and not allowed to do superficial things like all people. But…

>It’s been estimated that, in the twentieth century, more than a hundred thousand people worldwide were permanently paralyzed from eating grass pea.

Sounds like this issue isn't that superficial... it has affected a lot of people.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#74

Post by jlgreco »

grecy wrote: post #56
rosser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but if you think you can climb Everest without oxygen, and die in the attempt, you were a dumb-ass . Full stop.

Luckily there are plenty of people that don't agree with you, who are willing to try and push the limits of what humanity can do. We're all going to die, you know. Stats on deaths with/without oxygen: http://faculty.washington.edu/hueyrb/pdfs/jama.pdf

If you are Edmund Hillary, then knock yourself out. Climbing Everest today isn't pushing the limits of humanity. It is no more admirable than playing Russian Roulette.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#75

Post by glibgil »

rralian wrote: post #57
glibgil wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he didn't eat the wild potato seeds, he would have survived the 18 days until help came. He would have survived on squirrels and porcupines. The wild potato seeds poisoned him. He died from complications of paralysis. No one should eat wild potato seeds, ever, just to be sure they don't become permanently paralyzed. Young men are the highest risk group. This is new information. No one knew this before. I don't kno…

Well, you really don't know that he would have survived. He put himself in a precarious position and as others have said, he could have succumbed to any number of other dangers.

He would have survived. As other people have said he could have survived any number of ways (eating squirrels, porcupines) all while enjoying any number of comforts (sitting by the fire, sleeping, reading). You don't really know that he would not have survived.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#76

Post by jlgreco »

jere wrote: post #72
billybob255 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really invalidate them, it says that if you eat the seeds while malnourished the ODAP can kill you. It doesn't mention anything about him dying in an unforeseen accident, he went into the Alaskan bush unprepared and died of malnutrition. If he brought a map he could've walked to safety when he started to realize his plight.

>he went into the Alaskan bush unprepared and died of malnutrition. If he brought a map he could've walked to safety when he started to realize his plight. Did you actually read the article? That's not what it says. It suggests he became paralyzed by a neurotoxin, an event which no one could have foreseen at the time. Having a map wouldn't have cured his paralysis. I'm not even convinced he was lost.

The neurotoxin killed him in his weaken state. A weakened state he found himself in because he was starving already, basically from rabbit-starvation. Because he was unprepared.

Yes, had he not eaten the seeds, he (possibly) would still be alive... but he still would have been an idiot.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#77

Post by jlgreco »

grecy wrote: post #4

I made my own personal pilgrimage to The Magic Bus in summer '09 [1]. It's an extremely special place like none other I've visited. Completely coincidentally, one of my close friends where I now live in the far North was with the girl who tragically drowned trying to cross the Tek River in summer 2010. Also co-incidentally, just today I gave an interview for someone writing an article on the anniversary of Chris' dea…

What did you do for the Darién Gap? I've thought about making a similar trip a few times, but have never really gotten far into the planning stages.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#78

Post by comrade_ogilvy »

rosser wrote: post #52
grecy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly is a very dividing topic. I estimate that the comments on my personal trip to the bus [1] are split 50/50 between people that admire Chris' story, and people that think he was a dumbass. I think the argument boils whether Chris was unprepared (mentally and equipment-wise) to go into the Alaskan wilderness. If you read "Into the Wild", and the newer "Back to the Wild" book which has entries from his diary…

I'm sorry, but if you think you can climb Everest without oxygen, and die in the attempt, you were a dumb-ass . Full stop.

People die on Everest, regardless of how well they were prepared physically, mentally, or materially. Not taking oxygen is not the worst way to be unprepared, it likely only means you will give up sooner. The sooner you give up on the attempt on the peak, the more likely you are to survive it.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#79

Post by Tloewald »

wwweston wrote: post #34
Zimahl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The previous comment is the reason why McCandless is such a polarizing figure. Those who prepare and go on a quest without suffering negative consequences are somehow derided for not being independent thinkers, somehow cheapened for not risking enough. "Adventure is just bad planning." - Roald Amundsen

The good admiral has a point, but I don't think it gets to the heart of the McCandless drama. For that, I think I'd look to Norman Maclean's _Young Men and Fire_ where he talks about smoke jumpers: "It is very important to a lot of people to make unmistakably clear to themselves and to the universe that they love the universe but are not intimidated by it and will not be shaken by it, no matter what it has in store.…

Admiral?

As far as I know, Roald Amundsen was not affiliated with any military. Ironically he died while trying to rescue other, less competent, explorers.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#80

Post by comrade_ogilvy »

rayiner wrote: post #31
cpncrunch wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that he was an independent thinker, and thus was disillusioned by all the BS in modern society. Sure he made some mistakes and he had some back luck, but he chose to find meaning in his life instead of being another sheep. Can you say the same for your own life?

The irony of your post is that his death is a vivid demonstration of one reason why humans engage in flock behavior: to develop social memory of what's safe to eat. Those who stayed with the flock lived meaningful lives--they got jobs they had kids, they propagated their genes. He didn't live a meaningful life--he died painfully in his 20's in the woods because he ate a lethal dose of neurotoxins.

To counter whining about sheep with a literal defense of flocking behavior is going to be hard to top.
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