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How Chris McCandless Died

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Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#31

Post by rayiner »

cpncrunch wrote: post #6
malloreon wrote: post #2

Obligatory quotes from McCandless' wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless ): Alaskan Park Ranger Peter Christian wrote: "When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn't even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic, and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail…

I think the point is that he was an independent thinker, and thus was disillusioned by all the BS in modern society. Sure he made some mistakes and he had some back luck, but he chose to find meaning in his life instead of being another sheep. Can you say the same for your own life?

The irony of your post is that his death is a vivid demonstration of one reason why humans engage in flock behavior: to develop social memory of what's safe to eat. Those who stayed with the flock lived meaningful lives--they got jobs they had kids, they propagated their genes. He didn't live a meaningful life--he died painfully in his 20's in the woods because he ate a lethal dose of neurotoxins.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#32

Post by tdees40 »

My one issue with this is that he was, by all accounts, alarmingly thin before the seeds did him in, and winter hadn't even arrived yet. It's hard to imagine him surviving the winter, seeds or not. So while the seeds obviously shortened his life, I doubt it was by a very large factor.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#33

Post by untog »

base698 wrote: post #30
untog wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he chose to live a meaningful life instead of being another sheep. Can you say the same for your own life? Yeah, I can. Most of us can. 'Sheep' is such an over-used term that covers so much. Getting a full time job for a company doesn't make your a 'sheep', you can still leave a happy and meaningful life. People say (though I have no personal experience) that having children is the most meaningful thing you can do in…

I don't believe sheep is overused when a huge population of people are pursuing material gains for people who don't care. The short list of what this leads to: depression, hopelessness, addiction, dietary diseases, and other first world problems. All trying to keep up with the Joneses. There are more meaningful pursuits.

There are more meaningful pursuits.

Like Chris McCandless's one that resulted in death? Seriously, you can't hold him up as an idol of a 'better life' when his life was cut short very, very prematurely. I'm not qualified to judge whether depression and dietary diseases are better than death, but I think it's at least worth debating.

And few people pursue material gains for the purpose of simply having them. Like I said, for a great many people in the world, being a parent is hugely meaningful. It leads them to pursue material gains in order to provide for their children and watch them grow in comfort. That does not make them 'sheep'.

If they are then everyone is a sheep. You are an "anti-'sheep'" sheep.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#34

Post by wwweston »

Zimahl wrote: post #20
lrm242 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. The guy was most certainly not an independent thinker. Nor was he a critical thinker. Nor did he have any respect for the challenge he was taking on. He was an angst ridden teenage boy captured in an twenty something's body that never learned the difference between fantasy and reality. Most importantly, he never learned that in the real world there are consequences for stupid actions.

This. The previous comment is the reason why McCandless is such a polarizing figure. Those who prepare and go on a quest without suffering negative consequences are somehow derided for not being independent thinkers, somehow cheapened for not risking enough. "Adventure is just bad planning." - Roald Amundsen

The good admiral has a point, but I don't think it gets to the heart of the McCandless drama.

For that, I think I'd look to Norman Maclean's _Young Men and Fire_ where he talks about smoke jumpers:

"It is very important to a lot of people to make unmistakably clear to themselves and to the universe that they love the universe but are not intimidated by it and will not be shaken by it, no matter what it has in store. Moreover, they demand something from themselves early in life that can be taken ever after as a demonstration of this abiding feeling...

"For many former Smokejumpers, then, smokejumping is not closely tied up with their [eventual] way of life, but is more something that is necessary for them to pass through and not around and, once it is unmistakably done, does not have to be done again. The 'it' is within, and is the need to settle some things with the universe and ourselves before taking on the 'business of the world,' which isn't all that special or hard but takes time. This 'it' is the something special within that demands we do something special, and 'it' could be within a lot of us."

If people here are reading this and haven't already realized some parallels between not just McCandless and smokejumpers but also entrepreneurs I'd be surprised.

Now, you can draw distinctions between McCandless and smokejumpers, too: the later train and drill and prepare, probably as well as Amundsen could be satisfied with. And their work has a practical end. But their work is still an adventure because they also operate in an area of high risk, and as a result they sometimes pay a high cost.

And they don't do this job for entirely practical reasons. They do it because they have a need for an internal narrative that settles certain things and establishes a kind of identity, they do it because they need something off the beaten track for middle class success.

McCandless was clearly looking for that. I think it's fair to ask if he'd been a little less romantic about it and a little more thoughtful whether he might have had both his survival adventure and his survival.

Then again, unless you're Batman or some other protagonist whose superpower is acute anticipation by authorial fiat, it's mitigated by the limits of the best laid plans.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#35

Post by grecy »

malloreon wrote: post #2

Obligatory quotes from McCandless' wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless ): Alaskan Park Ranger Peter Christian wrote: "When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn't even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic, and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail…

It certainly is a very dividing topic. I estimate that the comments on my personal trip to the bus [1] are split 50/50 between people that admire Chris' story, and people that think he was a dumbass.

I think the argument boils whether Chris was unprepared (mentally and equipment-wise) to go into the Alaskan wilderness. If you read "Into the Wild", and the newer "Back to the Wild" book which has entries from his diary and photos from his cameras, I think it's clear Chris was very prepared mentally - he knew exactly what he was trying to do, and he knew exactly how dangerous it was. He spent months working out, climbing mountains with his heavy pack, and researching wild edible berries and game in preparation for what he wanted to do. This shows he had a clear mind going in.

So essentially, he was trying to do something dangerous, with the minimum amount of gear possible.

This is no different from the countless people that attempt to climb Everest or K2 without oxygen and perish in the attempt. Those people are not considered dumb asses. Neither are the countless thousands and thousands that perish getting out there and pushing themselves as best as they can.

A person's level of preparedness for any life adventure is clearly their own choosing. Who are we to say that someone was foolish for attempting to push the boundaries of what they thought they were capable of?

Even worse, if someone were to be the first to summit some mountain or other without oxygen, they would be hailed a hero. If they died, they'd be a dumb ass. The outcome should not have any baring on if they were "prepared enough" or not - only they can make that choice for themselves.

--

As a side note, have you even spent any time in Alaska or with Alaskans? I live up here. If you were to go more than 10 yards from a highway and didn't have a quad, rifle, chainsaw, axe, saw, three pairs of boots, sixteen gloves, spare everything, spare gasoline, 300lb wall tent & stove, sat phone and a spot satellite messenger and you so much as broke a fingernail, Alaskans would very quickly point out you're a complete dumb-ass for being so horribly unprepared. Even worse, you go by yourself.

[1] http://theroadchoseme.com/the-magic-bus

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#36

Post by emilsedgh »

lrm242 wrote: post #10
cpncrunch wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that he was an independent thinker, and thus was disillusioned by all the BS in modern society. Sure he made some mistakes and he had some back luck, but he chose to find meaning in his life instead of being another sheep. Can you say the same for your own life?

Give me a break. The guy was most certainly not an independent thinker. Nor was he a critical thinker. Nor did he have any respect for the challenge he was taking on. He was an angst ridden teenage boy captured in an twenty something's body that never learned the difference between fantasy and reality. Most importantly, he never learned that in the real world there are consequences for stupid actions.

Your comment sounds like he harmed other people with his stupid actions. He was harmless to everyone but himself. And the consequence, he paid it with his life.

The nobel part is that he actually left everything behind while most of us are drowning into urban life.

He wasnt a hero in traditional sense of 'saving, helping' other people. He is a hero who had what it takes to leave society behind while we cannot let go of smallest of things.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#37

Post by jere »

runjake wrote: post #11
malloreon wrote: post #2

Obligatory quotes from McCandless' wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless ): Alaskan Park Ranger Peter Christian wrote: "When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn't even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic, and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail…

This point has been rehashed again and again and again every time McCandless is mentioned. We get it . Aside from that, what is your point? Did you even bother to read the article, which despite mentioning this detraction, has nothing to do with it? Or were you just looking for easy upvotes?

>Did you even bother to read the article, which despite mentioning this detraction, has nothing to do with it?

In fact, it invalidates those criticisms against McCandless.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#38

Post by sliverstorm »

runjake wrote: post #11
malloreon wrote: post #2

Obligatory quotes from McCandless' wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless ): Alaskan Park Ranger Peter Christian wrote: "When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn't even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic, and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail…

This point has been rehashed again and again and again every time McCandless is mentioned. We get it . Aside from that, what is your point? Did you even bother to read the article, which despite mentioning this detraction, has nothing to do with it? Or were you just looking for easy upvotes?

Perhaps the point is to preemptively stem the tide of lionization of McCandless.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#39

Post by anigbrowl »

cpncrunch wrote: post #6
malloreon wrote: post #2

Obligatory quotes from McCandless' wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless ): Alaskan Park Ranger Peter Christian wrote: "When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn't even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic, and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail…

I think the point is that he was an independent thinker, and thus was disillusioned by all the BS in modern society. Sure he made some mistakes and he had some back luck, but he chose to find meaning in his life instead of being another sheep. Can you say the same for your own life?

Can you say the same for your own life?

Hmm, yes.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#40

Post by grecy »

tdees40 wrote: post #32

My one issue with this is that he was, by all accounts, alarmingly thin before the seeds did him in, and winter hadn't even arrived yet. It's hard to imagine him surviving the winter, seeds or not. So while the seeds obviously shortened his life, I doubt it was by a very large factor.

He never planned to stay the winter. He was just going to wait another month or two until the river level dropped, then he could just hike out the same way he hiked in.
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