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How Chris McCandless Died

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Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#61

Post by scott_s »

aaron695 wrote: post #54
runjake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This point has been rehashed again and again and again every time McCandless is mentioned. We get it . Aside from that, what is your point? Did you even bother to read the article, which despite mentioning this detraction, has nothing to do with it? Or were you just looking for easy upvotes?

But the article has no point. Well, it's point is Christopher McCandless is a celebrity, lets work out how he died. There is little science going on here, other than using science to work out how celebrity McCandless died. Image if those scientists used their knowledge for real pressing issues that affect many people. Not saying scientists should be boring and not allowed to do superficial things like all people. But…

How he died counters the arguments of his hubris.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#62

Post by scott_s »

lrm242 wrote: post #10
cpncrunch wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that he was an independent thinker, and thus was disillusioned by all the BS in modern society. Sure he made some mistakes and he had some back luck, but he chose to find meaning in his life instead of being another sheep. Can you say the same for your own life?

Give me a break. The guy was most certainly not an independent thinker. Nor was he a critical thinker. Nor did he have any respect for the challenge he was taking on. He was an angst ridden teenage boy captured in an twenty something's body that never learned the difference between fantasy and reality. Most importantly, he never learned that in the real world there are consequences for stupid actions.

Nor did he have any respect for the challenge he was taking on.

The conclusion is that he died from a specific set of circumstances that few people knew were deadly. I think that directly counters the notion that he "he had no respect for the challenge" because I believe people arrive at that conclusion backwards: he died doing it, so he must have been foolhardy.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#63

Post by base698 »

hga wrote: post #50
base698 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better stay in your manufactured suburban home and eat plastic wrapped pastries like everyone else.

You could still stay at the edge of the flock and follow a zillion people who've "gone back to nature" ... but the nature of post-hunter-gatherer agriculture. Stick to growing plants and raising animals we're on very solid grounds WRT short term toxicity vs. "This wild stuff doesn't seem to be deadly" and then accidentally find out the conditions and dosages in which it turns out to be. The flock itself has value; yo…

I'm just pointing out that some risk is necessary and complete risk aversion can lead to undesirable outcomes. A lot of people here probably moved far from their home base to work at a startup for example. Some were exposed to completely new cultures and lost comforts of home because of it. If they did what their family or friends did they would have stayed home and not took the risk.

People from my home state think California is an awful place. I moved here for work and couldn't imagine living anywhere else--imagine if I'd of took their word.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#64

Post by scott_s »

jlgreco wrote: post #29
mpyne wrote: post #5

The author posits that it wasn't stupidity that killed McCandless for eating a plant not known to be toxic, but rather ignorance. However the reason he (and the rest of us) were ignorant of the danger of the potato seed is that the potato seed isn't dangerous to anyone except those in a severe caloric deficit and still undergoing physical exertion. In other words he applied knowledge gained in one situation (normal p…

I'll go further and state that the only reason this ignorance was dangerous to him was because he stupidly put himself in a situation where it could be. Everyone should know that the wilderness can be dangerous for countless reasons, that isn't really something you can be ignorant of. Not making an effort to eliminate ignorance before putting yourself in the path of danger is stupid. Put it this way, scuba diving is…

I'm not sure you read the article. He did make an effort to reduce his ignorance. He was knowledgable on what was and was not edible. He had the same knowledge that everyone else had, prior to the investigation of his death. It is only after investigating his death that we know that eating those seeds, while in extreme caloric deficit, is dangerous.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#65

Post by [deleted] »

base698 wrote: post #63
hga wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could still stay at the edge of the flock and follow a zillion people who've "gone back to nature" ... but the nature of post-hunter-gatherer agriculture. Stick to growing plants and raising animals we're on very solid grounds WRT short term toxicity vs. "This wild stuff doesn't seem to be deadly" and then accidentally find out the conditions and dosages in which it turns out to be. The flock itself has value; yo…

I'm just pointing out that some risk is necessary and complete risk aversion can lead to undesirable outcomes. A lot of people here probably moved far from their home base to work at a startup for example. Some were exposed to completely new cultures and lost comforts of home because of it. If they did what their family or friends did they would have stayed home and not took the risk. People from my home state think…

[deleted]

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#66

Post by lpvn »

For everyone who liked 'Into the Wild' I suggest the documentary 'Once I Was a Champion' that tells the story of Evan Tanner, a mma fighter who died in a pilgrimage in the Californian Desert. Evan, an avid travelller just like Chris, was also a person who had trouble finding his place in this world and suffered from depression and a deep sense of alienation.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#67

Post by ballard »

narfquat wrote: post #42

Hmm, I wonder what other types of otherwise harmless food stuffs can become detrimental given the correct physiological conditions of the consumer? How do we even go about humanely testing that sort of thing?

It depends on loads of factors.

Also, differentiation between acute toxicity (would kill within a month) or chronic issues (inflammation, deficiency, hormone altering, etc).

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#68

Post by DannyBee »

rosser wrote: post #52
grecy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly is a very dividing topic. I estimate that the comments on my personal trip to the bus [1] are split 50/50 between people that admire Chris' story, and people that think he was a dumbass. I think the argument boils whether Chris was unprepared (mentally and equipment-wise) to go into the Alaskan wilderness. If you read "Into the Wild", and the newer "Back to the Wild" book which has entries from his diary…

I'm sorry, but if you think you can climb Everest without oxygen, and die in the attempt, you were a dumb-ass . Full stop.

And if you don't die?

Folks like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Boukreev, who are certainly not dumb-asses, have what seems to be an arguably reasonable viewpoint on supplementary oxygen: It gives you a very false sense of security, and that false sense of security (because of oxygen or whatever) is what really kills people.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#69

Post by drcode »

grecy wrote: post #56
rosser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but if you think you can climb Everest without oxygen, and die in the attempt, you were a dumb-ass . Full stop.

Luckily there are plenty of people that don't agree with you, who are willing to try and push the limits of what humanity can do. We're all going to die, you know. Stats on deaths with/without oxygen: http://faculty.washington.edu/hueyrb/pdfs/jama.pdf

Given that over a thousand people have climbed Everest at this point, it seems to me that climbing Everest is about the most boring/pretentious thing I could imagine doing (compared to all the other interesting things you can do in this world)

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#70

Post by billybob255 »

jere wrote: post #37
runjake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This point has been rehashed again and again and again every time McCandless is mentioned. We get it . Aside from that, what is your point? Did you even bother to read the article, which despite mentioning this detraction, has nothing to do with it? Or were you just looking for easy upvotes?

>Did you even bother to read the article, which despite mentioning this detraction, has nothing to do with it? In fact, it invalidates those criticisms against McCandless.

It doesn't really invalidate them, it says that if you eat the seeds while malnourished the ODAP can kill you. It doesn't mention anything about him dying in an unforeseen accident, he went into the Alaskan bush unprepared and died of malnutrition. If he brought a map he could've walked to safety when he started to realize his plight.
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