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How Chris McCandless Died

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Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#51

Post by cpncrunch »

wwweston wrote: post #34
Zimahl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The previous comment is the reason why McCandless is such a polarizing figure. Those who prepare and go on a quest without suffering negative consequences are somehow derided for not being independent thinkers, somehow cheapened for not risking enough. "Adventure is just bad planning." - Roald Amundsen

The good admiral has a point, but I don't think it gets to the heart of the McCandless drama. For that, I think I'd look to Norman Maclean's _Young Men and Fire_ where he talks about smoke jumpers: "It is very important to a lot of people to make unmistakably clear to themselves and to the universe that they love the universe but are not intimidated by it and will not be shaken by it, no matter what it has in store.…

I think it's an interesting point you raise about entrepreneurs, and I think that is why I feel a connection to Chris. I certainly know that I seem to think differently from that vast majority of people. That is useful in coming up with novel ideas, but it can also make it challenging fitting into society.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#52

Post by rosser »

grecy wrote: post #35
malloreon wrote: post #2

Obligatory quotes from McCandless' wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless ): Alaskan Park Ranger Peter Christian wrote: "When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn't even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic, and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail…

It certainly is a very dividing topic. I estimate that the comments on my personal trip to the bus [1] are split 50/50 between people that admire Chris' story, and people that think he was a dumbass. I think the argument boils whether Chris was unprepared (mentally and equipment-wise) to go into the Alaskan wilderness. If you read "Into the Wild", and the newer "Back to the Wild" book which has entries from his diary…

I'm sorry, but if you think you can climb Everest without oxygen, and die in the attempt, you were a dumb-ass. Full stop.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#53

Post by Zimahl »

wwweston wrote: post #34
Zimahl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The previous comment is the reason why McCandless is such a polarizing figure. Those who prepare and go on a quest without suffering negative consequences are somehow derided for not being independent thinkers, somehow cheapened for not risking enough. "Adventure is just bad planning." - Roald Amundsen

The good admiral has a point, but I don't think it gets to the heart of the McCandless drama. For that, I think I'd look to Norman Maclean's _Young Men and Fire_ where he talks about smoke jumpers: "It is very important to a lot of people to make unmistakably clear to themselves and to the universe that they love the universe but are not intimidated by it and will not be shaken by it, no matter what it has in store.…

I see what you are saying but like you said, smoke jumpers prepare. While they might jump into hazardous conditions it is not done without a risk:reward ratio well above 'adventure'.

When best laid plans fail they are forgiven because there were at least plans.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#54

Post by aaron695 »

runjake wrote: post #11
malloreon wrote: post #2

Obligatory quotes from McCandless' wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless ): Alaskan Park Ranger Peter Christian wrote: "When you consider McCandless from my perspective, you quickly see that what he did wasn't even particularly daring, just stupid, tragic, and inconsiderate. First off, he spent very little time learning how to actually live in the wild. He arrived at the Stampede Trail…

This point has been rehashed again and again and again every time McCandless is mentioned. We get it . Aside from that, what is your point? Did you even bother to read the article, which despite mentioning this detraction, has nothing to do with it? Or were you just looking for easy upvotes?

But the article has no point.

Well, it's point is Christopher McCandless is a celebrity, lets work out how he died.

There is little science going on here, other than using science to work out how celebrity McCandless died.

Image if those scientists used their knowledge for real pressing issues that affect many people.

Not saying scientists should be boring and not allowed to do superficial things like all people. But take it for what it is.

Which is probably why people go back to the bigger picture.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#55

Post by brianobush »

emilsedgh wrote: post #47
brianobush wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society isn't evil in and of itself, though it does contain evil. Humans are social creatures, so why is leaving what we need/depend upon heroic?

"Humans are social creatures, so why is leaving what we need/depend upon heroic?" He challenged that idea. Isnt that heroic? To let go of whole society. Everything and Everyone. Please, at least agree with me that what he did was daring. So damn daring that makes him a hero to me.

Yes, I do agree that what he did was daring. In my book, a bit crazy. But that can be a good thing, in measured doses.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#56

Post by grecy »

rosser wrote: post #52
grecy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly is a very dividing topic. I estimate that the comments on my personal trip to the bus [1] are split 50/50 between people that admire Chris' story, and people that think he was a dumbass. I think the argument boils whether Chris was unprepared (mentally and equipment-wise) to go into the Alaskan wilderness. If you read "Into the Wild", and the newer "Back to the Wild" book which has entries from his diary…

I'm sorry, but if you think you can climb Everest without oxygen, and die in the attempt, you were a dumb-ass . Full stop.

Luckily there are plenty of people that don't agree with you, who are willing to try and push the limits of what humanity can do.

We're all going to die, you know.

Stats on deaths with/without oxygen: http://faculty.washington.edu/hueyrb/pdfs/jama.pdf

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#57

Post by rralian »

glibgil wrote: post #19
mpyne wrote: post #5

The author posits that it wasn't stupidity that killed McCandless for eating a plant not known to be toxic, but rather ignorance. However the reason he (and the rest of us) were ignorant of the danger of the potato seed is that the potato seed isn't dangerous to anyone except those in a severe caloric deficit and still undergoing physical exertion. In other words he applied knowledge gained in one situation (normal p…

If he didn't eat the wild potato seeds, he would have survived the 18 days until help came. He would have survived on squirrels and porcupines. The wild potato seeds poisoned him. He died from complications of paralysis. No one should eat wild potato seeds, ever, just to be sure they don't become permanently paralyzed. Young men are the highest risk group. This is new information. No one knew this before. I don't kno…

Well, you really don't know that he would have survived. He put himself in a precarious position and as others have said, he could have succumbed to any number of other dangers.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#58

Post by northband »

I read about Chris back in '94 or so and was moved. I sold everything I had and decided to head out into the Colorado wilderness.

However, while working and saving for my trip I saw Phish and ended up going on Phish tour '95 instead.

Whether you head into the wilderness or follow your favorite band - IMO life on the road is a great building block for life.

There's hardly a period that goes by where I don't somehow think about my time spent on the road.

(...and I still see Phish every year ;-))

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#59

Post by cpncrunch »

untog wrote: post #23
cpncrunch wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that he was an independent thinker, and thus was disillusioned by all the BS in modern society. Sure he made some mistakes and he had some back luck, but he chose to find meaning in his life instead of being another sheep. Can you say the same for your own life?

he chose to live a meaningful life instead of being another sheep. Can you say the same for your own life? Yeah, I can. Most of us can. 'Sheep' is such an over-used term that covers so much. Getting a full time job for a company doesn't make your a 'sheep', you can still leave a happy and meaningful life. People say (though I have no personal experience) that having children is the most meaningful thing you can do in…

Certainly, living a normal life and bringing up a family is meaningful. I think the point I am making is that it wasn't meaningful for him.

Fitting in with society is good in some ways and bad in others.

Here are some concrete examples of situations when it's bad to be a sheep:

- in my home country (Northern Ireland) people tend to vote for one of the two sectarian parties. In the 2010 election only 7% of people votes for non-sectarian parties. The problem is that the sectarian parties are supporting violence, intolerance and ignorance (some directly, others indrectly). Most people (over 90% in this case) are sheep, so they simply vote whichever tribe they were brought up in, even though it is tearing apart their society.

- Recently I was chatting to the directors of a local club who had perpetrated a scam (or "loophole" as they called it) to avoid paying a few thousand dollars in sales tax. I'm pretty sure the scheme is illegal, and the treasurer just resigned because of it. The previous president also thinks it is illegal. Anyway, when I was chatting to these guys they were saying how well democracy works because 67 people voted for this scheme and only 3 voted against.

For more example have a look at the second Iraq war, healthcare in the USA (and partisanship in US politics in general), the housing boom, not to mention silicon valley with its "me too" VCs investing in a raftload of crappy startups that aren't doing anything original.

Chris unfortunately died before he had a chance to really live his life - he was still trying to figure things out and discover his purpose in life. However if he had lived I think it is quite likely he would have made some great achievements.

Re: How Chris McCandless Died

#60

Post by ballard »

grecy wrote: post #56
rosser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but if you think you can climb Everest without oxygen, and die in the attempt, you were a dumb-ass . Full stop.

Luckily there are plenty of people that don't agree with you, who are willing to try and push the limits of what humanity can do. We're all going to die, you know. Stats on deaths with/without oxygen: http://faculty.washington.edu/hueyrb/pdfs/jama.pdf

Contemplating, or perhaps risking (at one's choice), death brings appreciation of life. And possibly, what's important.
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