Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#241

Post by idProQuo » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 12:38 PM UTC

mcphilip wrote: post #72

alexhomer1 wrote: post #35

"There is every reason to believe [sarin gas] was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists." Obama asserted something quite different in last night's address. He stated that the Syrian army distributed gas masks to their soldiers before the attacks, that documents show Syrian generals reviewing the re…

>I would tend to believe Obama because he is much more credible than Putin, and has much more to lose if he can't produce evidence to support his claims. >Despite Putin's call for transparency, the fact remains that he is unwilling to tell the truth about what happened. You've made quite a jump to go from one sentence arguing that Obama is more credible than Putin to (indirectly) calling Putin a liar. From what I've…

>If the evidence is as clear as Obama is trying to make it appear, why not have an independent body from the U.N. review the evidence?

The thought is that Russia will find a way to veto the proposal no matter what, because they have financial interests in Syria.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#242

Post by deveac » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 1:21 PM UTC

jtc331 wrote: post #122

deveac wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He certainly does know his audience, and he certainly failed to mention a certain key foreign power supplying weapons to one of the sides... >This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world. Yes this is essentially a civil war between the current regime and a multifaceted opposition. Putin is heavily arming one of those sides.

And the United States (covertly) is heavily arming the other.

Correct, as Putin pointed out in the piece (in the section I quoted above).

The point I was making was that this a political play by an invested actor, not the passionate reasoned plea it was trying to come across as. That was quite an omission he made there, though it made sense rhetorically for his purpose. The poster above found him/herself "not only nodding along but inspired" by they man who is responsible for the weapons that have killed tens of thousands in this conflict so far.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#243

Post by SCAQTony » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 2:09 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #220

SCAQTony wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...If at this point, Putin sounds reasonable and is starting to look like the better of two devils, we're in deep shit...." Well, at this point with the NSA scandals, this Syrian civil, I am convince that Putin is the reasonable voice and that we ARE in deep shit.

So move to Russia. You first.

Why run when collectively we can encourage our politicians to do the right thing?

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#244

Post by sologoub » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 2:13 PM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #172

sologoub wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His is a former KGB officer, an organization hardly known for religious tolerance. Most Russians claim Orthodoxy, including me, but Putin is the last person I would associate with any sort of piety.

I'm aware of those things, and obviously he knows that everyone else knows that too. If he says he is religious, I don't think mere conjecture is enough to assume that he isn't. The actual reality of what he thinks can be known only to himself, the best we can go on (for him, and indeed anybody else. Hell, even the pope...) is what he claims.

That is your opinion, I have mine.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#245

Post by EugeneOZ » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 2:20 PM UTC

Sagat wrote: post #195

Grovara123 wrote: post #153

We are all equal... Except for the gay.

Russia's stance on gays does not invalidate the argument. Syria is an unrelated topic.

It's not Russian's stance. I'm russian and I hate all this homofobia in our government. It's shame for us to have that law and it's why I'm anti-patriot of my wild wild country. Please don't treat "Putin" or "russian government" as "whole Russia". More than half of russians hates their president and government. Not dislike, but literally hate. Our government is our shame.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#246

Post by jusben1369 » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 2:48 PM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #66

"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…

Tweet I saw earlier today "Is Putin's speech translated into Chechen? I'm asking for a friend"

P.S I don't think it's irony either, I think it's hypocrisy.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#247

Post by foxhedgehog » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 3:57 PM UTC

Phlarp wrote: post #137

foxhedgehog wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that I missed the Obama administration's op-ed opining about life in Russia.

Presidents get much larger platforms from which to sell their opinions on foreign policy to Americans.

Yes and Russian presidents get much larger platforms from which to sell their opinions on foreign policy to Russians. What's your point?

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#248

Post by foxhedgehog » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 3:58 PM UTC

alan_cx wrote: post #108

akiselev wrote: post #66

"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…

I do wonder if Russians, Arabs, Muslims, and so on feel the same way when Obama (Bush(s), Clinton, Blair, Cameron, etc) pontificates. The phrase "western hypocrisy" is not new. What is ironic, is that oddly I prefer the unashamed way Russia acts, compared to the cover-ups and lies of the west. You know where you stand. We in the west are supposed to be better, but all we are better at really is PR. In Russia, people…

Sounds like you do believe in US exceptionalism

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#249

Post by rthomas6 » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 4:16 PM UTC

waps wrote: post #154

akiselev wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The content is nothing new, the author is the only interesting part of this article.

I doubt very much it's defending Russia's point of view. It's defending a point of view that has the outcome as Russia's and that Russia would like people to adopt, but I think we can be 100% certain it is not, in fact, Russia's point of view. Russia does not seem to have any big interests in the neighborhood (though it certainly has them nearby). The problem here is that the same can be said about Obama. I do not kn…

Syria is currently allied with Iran and Russia. The USA would prefer if Syria was not allied with these countries. That is my take.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#250

Post by gdy » Thu, Sep 12, 2013, 6:25 PM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #214

gdy wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that US propganda is a sneaky thing J Next time you want to write something in caps ask youself how do you know this and do fact-checking. And in all other cases too J

I know that the USA is blocking any Palestine solutions in the Security Council as well, but it only makes the same point - the concept of "veto" makes Security Council useless. I'm not saying that Putin is the cause of that, but he is one of them (together with USA and China) - his veto power is part of the problem. I was singling out Russia because of (propaganda-induced-opinion?) a pattern I've seen of Russia syst…

I'm afraid the "vast majority of the world" will be a coalition formed around a major power. Unilateral consensus in UNSC is needed for exactly this reason - to avoid abuse of power by an influential state. As for the "supporting dictators against their own people" I have a problem with the word "people" - often it is just a minor militarized group with foreign support presented by western media as "the people". As for supporting dictators, why don't you look at the US' Middle East allies - Bahrein and Saudi Arabia, for example.

"trivial and unneccesary things can be decided there" I wouldn't call the UNSC resolution on Mali "trivial and unneccesary thing": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council...