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Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

nytimes.com

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Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#201

Post by PeterisP »

cdash wrote: post #93
haberman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also ironic: the only reason this strike would be "against the law" is because of Putin's own veto (and China, who is probably just following suit on this one). He conveniently omits this point, because the moment the focus turns to his motivations, it would be immediately obvious how self-serving the entire piece is.

The entire point of the UN and "the law" is that Russia gets to veto the same as the US gets to veto.

The difference is that Russia, unlike US, seems to use their veto EVERY SINGLE TIME when there's some thance that UN might do something. UN Security Council could have had a role in the world - but Mr. Putin is a major reason making UN Security Council useless and nonfunctional.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#202

Post by guard-of-terra »

spacebe4time wrote: post #125
sologoub wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian superiority views are a relic of the empirical past. Every empire-forming nation has that same trait - us versus barbarians. UK has this trait also and it is well illustrated in "Great Britain". Russia might have been a great place to live, if it weren't for rampant corruption. It's sad, but on a personal level, I just can't take the risk of raising a family there or trying to do business. In US, entrepreneur…

It isn't relic. Just like coffeemug I was born and raised in the Soviet Union. It's not openly taught in schools but most ethnic Russians consider themselves higher race and everyone else is intellectually inferior. This is even taught by Russian Orthodox Church. I graduated from high school after Soviet Union collapsed. We had this course called Christian Morality. In the class room I learned curious thing. It turne…

"Christian morality" in shools is something introduced very recently which means whatever you actually got before that is unsolicited and random. No need to project that on the whole society. Same regarding your father - you can find people like that everywhere.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#203

Post by mryan »

sologoub wrote: post #103
coffeemug wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born in the former Soviet Union, and I get what you're saying. But you can't seriously say that Russian exceptionalism isn't used in service of rationalizing the belief that the Russians are better people than the rest of the world. Consider the popularity of Zadornov's humor -- the gist of almost every joke is that foreigners are dumber than the Russians. Also this might be nitpicking, but Americans don't typi…

Russian superiority views are a relic of the empirical past. Every empire-forming nation has that same trait - us versus barbarians. UK has this trait also and it is well illustrated in "Great Britain". Russia might have been a great place to live, if it weren't for rampant corruption. It's sad, but on a personal level, I just can't take the risk of raising a family there or trying to do business. In US, entrepreneur…

> UK has this trait also and it is well illustrated in "Great Britain".

This is a common misconception. The "Great" part it not meant in the sense of it being important or excellent. Rather, it refers to the size of the island.

The name "Great Britain" has been around since the UK was a wet and rainy corner of the Roman Empire - in a sense, it is a relic of an empirical past... just not the British Empire.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#204

Post by sesm »

ihsw wrote: post #106
light3 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the chances Putin didn't write the article?

There are some grammatical and capitalization errors, and numerous comma splices (stringing similar sentence fragments together in an effort to form a coherent statement). There was also usage of very short sentences in repeated succession. Those are mostly stylistic issues but they're indicative of non-native grasp of the English language. Furthermore it's clearly written by someone with enough capability to express…

Of course, Putin's speechwriter is likely to be Russian.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#205

Post by arkx »

fludlight wrote: post #22
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #8

How much evidence do we in fact have that the rebels gassed their own people in a false-flag operation? I had heard it was a possibility, Putin seems to think it's all but certain, but I haven't studied the issue in depth.

It's a pretty common tactic. IIRC, the Nazis allegedly shelled one of their towns and used it as an excuse to invade Poland. The Soviets were rumored to have done the same with Finland.

Rumored? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Mainila

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#206

Post by xerophtye »

r0h1n wrote: post #200
darkarmani wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely missing the point. Putin is stating that the reason no one should intervene in Syria, because we need to follow the law (the security council). When the truth is he could easily not veto and intervention would be lawful. That's why it is disingenuous. Vote for it and your dilemma is solved!

> When the truth is he could easily not veto and intervention would be lawful. Allow me to point out America's veto record: "Eighty-three times the US has exercised its veto. On 42 of these occasions it has done so to prevent Israel's treatment of the Palestinians being censured. On the last occasion, 130 nations supported the resolution but Barack Obama spiked it. Though veto powers have been used less often since t…

THANK YOU! Was hoping someone would notice that

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#207

Post by xerophtye »

darkarmani wrote: post #157
rooshdi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be said about the United States. Every nation has an agenda in the region.

You are completely missing the point. Putin is stating that the reason no one should intervene in Syria, because we need to follow the law (the security council). When the truth is he could easily not veto and intervention would be lawful. That's why it is disingenuous. Vote for it and your dilemma is solved!

That may be, but the point is, it actually is REASONABLE not to intervene. Just because it's PUTIN saying it, doesn't mean that the point is invalid

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#208

Post by xerophtye »

PeterisP wrote: post #201
cdash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point of the UN and "the law" is that Russia gets to veto the same as the US gets to veto.

The difference is that Russia, unlike US, seems to use their veto EVERY SINGLE TIME when there's some thance that UN might do something. UN Security Council could have had a role in the world - but Mr. Putin is a major reason making UN Security Council useless and nonfunctional.

eh? "unlike US" ?? O_O please refer to this gentlemen's post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6372646 on this very thread

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#209

Post by varjag »

carlob wrote: post #165
darkarmani wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely missing the point. Putin is stating that the reason no one should intervene in Syria, because we need to follow the law (the security council). When the truth is he could easily not veto and intervention would be lawful. That's why it is disingenuous. Vote for it and your dilemma is solved!

Suppose someone is raping you: - Stop this! You're hurting me. Stop it! You'll go to jail. - I wouldn't go to jail if you just consented to sex.

Suppose you're black and sit in the white section of a bus in 1950s.

- Hey *, colored section is that way! You'll go to jail.

- I could sit here if you white people weren't the one making the law.

(That's the thing I love about analogies, they can be turned both ways and prove nothing)

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#210

Post by varjag »

abcd_f wrote: post #185
frozenport wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Russia an anti-american sentiment is heavily associated with Putin, often the Russian opposition is quite supportive of America - the place that made the Internet and YouTube.

> the Russian opposition is quite supportive of America Of course it is, because guess who's paying for said opposition?

This sentiment is quite common throughout former USSR: if someone is opposing the established authoritarian rule, they must be shills on the payroll. After all, what's there not to like, right?
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