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Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

nytimes.com

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Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#131

Post by mcantelon »

alexhomer1 wrote: post #35

"There is every reason to believe [sarin gas] was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists." Obama asserted something quite different in last night's address. He stated that the Syrian army distributed gas masks to their soldiers before the attacks, that documents show Syrian generals reviewing the re…

Obama is the front man for the military and intelligence establishment. If you're deeming him credible, you're deeming them credible. And this may not be wise looking back to Iraq: the yellowcake uranium fiasco, the bogus informant (Curveball), and the same pretext: concern over illegal weaponry.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#132

Post by nikcub »

alexhomer1 wrote: post #35

"There is every reason to believe [sarin gas] was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists." Obama asserted something quite different in last night's address. He stated that the Syrian army distributed gas masks to their soldiers before the attacks, that documents show Syrian generals reviewing the re…

> Syria broke one of the most important international laws that we have

Syria are not a signatory to the Chemical Weapons Convention (neither are the USA, Israel or Russia) which is why Kerry has chosen his words carefully and described what the Syrian government did as against international norms, not laws.

> The goal would not be to upset the balance of power or to cripple the Syrian army in any way

This is the part of US foreign policy that perplexes me. On one hand you argue that what Syria has done is outrageous, breaks international law, is a threat to American children if not met with force - but on the other hand you argue that its not important enough to risk troops on, and you won't hit them too hard.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#133

Post by Smirnoff »

light3 wrote: post #89
muerdeme wrote: post #28

Putin (or his representatives) knows his audience. This piece eschews the normal alpha bravado that I would expect from Putin in favor of a coherent argument in favor of restraint. I found myself not merely nodding along, but inspired, and I hope that we can at least agree with him on this. It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United State…

What are the chances Putin didn't write the article?

I have seen Putin talk on TV a few times and I can totally see Putin say this "in Russian."

He probably had someone to write it down and translate the speech for him. So I have no doubt that Putin was the author of the speech/letter.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#134

Post by anigbrowl »

alan_cx wrote: post #108
akiselev wrote: post #66

"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…

I do wonder if Russians, Arabs, Muslims, and so on feel the same way when Obama (Bush(s), Clinton, Blair, Cameron, etc) pontificates. The phrase "western hypocrisy" is not new. What is ironic, is that oddly I prefer the unashamed way Russia acts, compared to the cover-ups and lies of the west. You know where you stand. We in the west are supposed to be better, but all we are better at really is PR. In Russia, people…

Faraway hills look green.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#135

Post by spacebe4time »

cbhl wrote: post #49
peterstjohn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we must not forget that God created us equal." As long as you're not gay.

IIRC, that's illegal in Russia, unfortunately. America is known for being religious in general, so this line will work well with his target audience, in general.

Somehow I doubt this applies to NY Times readers.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#136

Post by ma2rten »

akiselev wrote: post #66

"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…

> If at this point, Putin sounds reasonable and is starting to look like the better of two devils, we're in deep shit.

Even a good person can be wrong sometimes, even a bad person can be right.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#137

Post by Phlarp »

foxhedgehog wrote: post #129
rooshdi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be said about the United States. Every nation has an agenda in the region.

I guess that I missed the Obama administration's op-ed opining about life in Russia.

Presidents get much larger platforms from which to sell their opinions on foreign policy to Americans.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#138

Post by mtrimpe »

sliverstorm wrote: post #119
rosser wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're factually correct in every respect, most of your comment is an ad hominem attack. Putin's arguments should be considered on their merits, regardless of his, his government's, or his country's character and history.

Putin's arguments should be considered on their merits, regardless of his... history I don't have a fancy French word to back me up, but I'm going to disagree. His arguments shouldn't be dismissed out of hand due to his history, but they deserve to come under extra scrutiny. The simplest reason being, as a politician, he is doubtless lying by omission about something , and as he is a politician whatever that somethin…

They're actually fancy Latin words.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#139

Post by anigbrowl »

JesseObrien wrote: post #115
gph wrote: post #16

I can't say I disagree with a lot of what he says. But I doubt he honestly believes in all of this. This rationalization just happens to coincide with his (and Russia's) interests. I think he'd do better to stay silent and let me come to this conclusion on my own instead of feeling dirty for having him agree with me.

>I think he'd do better to stay silent and let me come to this conclusion on my own instead of feeling dirty for having him agree with me. I'd prefer if he didn't, silence is a cancer. If anything has been blatantly apparent in the last 20 or 30 years it's that the American people as a whole simply cannot form any correct conclusion about anything that actually matters. Sure, they'll all ring in to vote on American I…

Sure, they'll all ring in to vote on American Idol, but it's a tough sell to vote yes on gay marriage

And yet that has a fair degree of legal protection at the federal level and is legal in multiple states now, whereas in Russia it is now a crime to promote the view that homosexuality is normal.

The American people have always been politically conservative and reluctant to abandon their residual Calvinism; if you think this is peculiar to the last 20 or 30 years you're dead wrong.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#140

Post by anigbrowl »

nikcub wrote: post #127
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #8

How much evidence do we in fact have that the rebels gassed their own people in a false-flag operation? I had heard it was a possibility, Putin seems to think it's all but certain, but I haven't studied the issue in depth.

Here is everything the major allies have released to back up their case: http://www.theguardian.com/world/graphic/2013/sep/03/syria-c... It isn't very good, it seems to be a case of finding scraps that fit your narrative rather than building a case. One thing that leads me to believe that it might have been the rebels: the civilians and soldiers killed in that rebel controlled area around Damascus were part of the mo…

True, but in that case the government forces should have been falling over themselves to facilitate the work of the UN inspectors.
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