Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya • Hacker News Board

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#111

Post by crusso » Wed, Sep 11, 2013, 5:48 PM UTC

throwaway_a wrote: post #110

crusso wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you're trying to have a logical or even scientific discussion with people who are more interested in having a political, politically correct, socially non-offensive discussion. Science and logic often lead to socially unpleasant realities. You can see the same thing when you talk to religious people about the scientific rationalization for an atheistic worldview. Those discussions don't go well ei…

Out of nowhere, the throwaway account for opinions TOO FAR out of the HN mainstream enters. The fact that anyone believes it's possible to have a "scientific" or purely "logical" evaluation on a race of people in some kind of sterile/unbias environment without racism being a significant factor is wrong in today's world. Studies such as this[1] are just racism. How often does anyone try to connect white people with so…

Meh, I don't believe in throwaway accounts for expressing non-mainstream opinions. People can downvote me if my thoughts bother them too much.

environment without racism being a significant factor

You demonstrate my point. I approach every sacred cow as though we should skip the emotionalism and let the facts lead where they will. You view the issue as being inextricable from the politics and emotion. You can't even begin to try to approach the subject without politicking and spinning, such as calling the linked article "racism" when it's really just a study that gives us some possibly interesting data points.

Hence, discussion is fairly pointless - as I was pointing out to the previous poster.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#112

Post by chrischen » Wed, Sep 11, 2013, 7:09 PM UTC

Amadou wrote: post #93

chrischen wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, pointing out something that's "negative" is not necessarily racism. "Negative" is also subjective. For example: Japanese people are short. In the West (and actually most of the world), people would find it a negative statement. If it is negative (that somehow being short is bad), stating this fact is not racism. This is not to mention the fact that it's subjective whether being short is negative or not.…

If you watch Colbert Report, Stephen Colbert often parodies this fallacious political correctness by claiming he is "color blind" and everyone has the same skin color to him. You have profoundly misunderstood why Colbert does that bit. He's parodying racists who say they are colorblind in order to ignore white privilege. Racial colorblindness is the modern version of, "I'm not racist, I have a black friend." The bit…

Did you even read the Wikipedia link you said:

"is a sociological term referring to the disregard of racial characteristics when selecting which individuals will participate in some activity or receive some service."

And from the first link you sent: "Colorblindness is the racial ideology that posits the best way to end discrimination is by treating individuals as equally as possible, without regard to race, culture, or ethnicity."

I have not profoundly misunderstood colbert's parodies. Misunderstanding of concepts like equality under the law ARE conservative stereotypes (conservatives often think liberals think everyone should be perfectly equal). Color blindness by wikipedias definition and my definition ARE conservative stereotypes as well. They often misunderstand what "racial equality" means and turn it into "colorblindness" instead, thinking all we need to do is to see everyone as exactly the same. Colbert parodies this because in his monologues and interviews he specifically refers to the Wikipedia definition: he points out that he can't tell skin color, not social-economic status. The viewer quickly sees the absurdity of the false political correctness because it's obvious his subject has a different skin color.

So I think you need to re-evaluate Colbert's parodies because you grossly misunderstand them, and apparently what "colorblindness" means. A good start would be to read the links you posted for me.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#113

Post by chrischen » Wed, Sep 11, 2013, 7:12 PM UTC

ajuc wrote: post #79

chrischen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Africans aren't more corrupt or warlike than anyone else How do you know? My history teacher never hesitated to teach us how Prussia was good at war, and how France sucked at war. Edit: this is an honest question. If I said anything wrong, please let me know as well.

Your history teacher thinks in stereotypes (or thinks only history between 1870 and 1945 is relevant). Nothing to be proud of. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jena%E2%80%93Auersted...

Not stating I'm proud. Only stating the obvious double standard.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#114

Post by Amadou » Wed, Sep 11, 2013, 10:10 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #112

Amadou wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you watch Colbert Report, Stephen Colbert often parodies this fallacious political correctness by claiming he is "color blind" and everyone has the same skin color to him. You have profoundly misunderstood why Colbert does that bit. He's parodying racists who say they are colorblind in order to ignore white privilege. Racial colorblindness is the modern version of, "I'm not racist, I have a black friend." The bit…

Did you even read the Wikipedia link you said: "is a sociological term referring to the disregard of racial characteristics when selecting which individuals will participate in some activity or receive some service." And from the first link you sent: "Colorblindness is the racial ideology that posits the best way to end discrimination is by treating individuals as equally as possible, without regard to race, culture,…

Did you even read the Wikipedia link you said:

The part of the article you are referring to is the original intended usage before it was adopted by racists seeking to cloak their racism in the language of their opponents. This new use that Colbert parodies is one where racists have adopted the form but not the meaning.

At this point your decision to willfully ignore the relevant part of the article in favor of the usage before it had been co-opted by racists suggests intellectual dishonesty rather than pure scientific egalitarianism.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#115

Post by eloff » Fri, Sep 13, 2013, 4:55 AM UTC

chad_oliver wrote: post #32

eloff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't explain away centuries (millenia in some cases) of tribalism, with hatred and fear and discrimination passed from parents to children for generations as mere poverty. Poverty plays a role to be sure, but the situation is more complex (it always is.)

Sorry, I did not mean to discount the impact of tribalism. It is certainly a significant issue in East Africa (I can't speak for other areas). The history of the USA shows that even affluent western countries suffer from the Us vs Them mindset. That said, I do believe that poverty is the more significant issue. Increased development generally correlates with stronger government [1], and with better access to governme…

I didn't downvote. Even relatively rich countries outside of Africa like Mexico, Chile, and Panama have very high violent crime rates, but mostly among the poor (in Panama anyway, in Mexico I suspect there's a lot more drug related violence.) So poverty is definitely a big issue, but tribalism plays a big role too, e.g. bloody civil wars and ethnic cleansing. A lot of violence in South Africa is either race related or tribal. So it's not that you're wrong, it's just that the picture is more complex than just poverty alone.