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Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

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Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#71

Post by Joe-Z »

chrischen wrote: post #65
smtddr wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't be in this thread after this. I already see the rabbit-hole falling has begun. Since we can actually measure & look at people in a very non-debatable way, you can get unquestionable & unbias data on how tall people are and the color of their skin. You cannot debate 6-foot tall versus 7-foot tall. We've(first-world at least) all agreed on what is a ruler. 12 inches is 12 inches. You also cannot debate the colo…

Again, I did not imply anything racist. I did not make any generalizations, about a race, a country, or EVEN a continent! Please listen to what I'm saying! Just because you constantly assert I'm a racist without actually listening to the substance and nuance of anything I have said does not make me a racist. Please, specifically point out what statement I said was a generalization about a race? Just because I do not…

I really shouldn't be getting into this, but whatever:

Let's assume that you believe that "all men are born equal" and you know for yourself that you are not a war-mongering, savaging monster and that this are also not typical traits for other people around you. Then, from your believe that "alle men are born equal" it's just far more likely that people in africa would default to a similar, peaceful, state like you and the thing that drives people in african war-torn countries must be outside factors.

(Also, let's be realistic and just admit that it's mostly just racism if you state something negative about a particular group, and not when it's something positive)

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#72

Post by losethos »

Virtual-Notary.Org hereby notes that on Date: Wednesday September 11, 2013 02:42.22 EDT (UTC-0400)

a random drawing in the range [1, 100000], inclusive, based on a hardware source of true randomness, yielded the following decision.

  Random Value: 34243
----

19:8 So Rabshakeh returned, and found the king of Assyria warring against Libnah: for he had heard that he was departed from Lachish.

19:9 And when he heard say of Tirhakah king of Ethiopia, Behold, he is come out to fight against thee: he sent messengers again unto Hezekiah, saying, 19:10 Thus shall ye speak to Hezekiah king of Judah, saying, Let not thy God in whom thou trustest deceive thee, saying, Jerusalem shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of Assyria.

19:11 Behold, thou hast heard what the kings of Assyria have done to all lands, by destroying them utterly: and shalt thou be delivered? 19:12 Have the gods of the nations delivered them which my fathers have destroyed; as Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph, and the children of Eden which were in Thelasar? 19:13 Where is the king of Hamath, and the king of Arpad, and the king of the city of Sepharvaim, of Hena, and Ivah? 19:14 And Hezekiah received the letter of the hand of the messengers, and read it: and Hezekiah went up into the house of the LORD, and spread it before the LORD.

19:15 And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

-----

lock ness == Lachish

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#73

Post by some_guy_there »

chrischen wrote: post #65
smtddr wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't be in this thread after this. I already see the rabbit-hole falling has begun. Since we can actually measure & look at people in a very non-debatable way, you can get unquestionable & unbias data on how tall people are and the color of their skin. You cannot debate 6-foot tall versus 7-foot tall. We've(first-world at least) all agreed on what is a ruler. 12 inches is 12 inches. You also cannot debate the colo…

Again, I did not imply anything racist. I did not make any generalizations, about a race, a country, or EVEN a continent! Please listen to what I'm saying! Just because you constantly assert I'm a racist without actually listening to the substance and nuance of anything I have said does not make me a racist. Please, specifically point out what statement I said was a generalization about a race? Just because I do not…

> He does not know, nor do I.

Yes, but there are level of beliefs that can be assigned to arbitrary hypothesis. Consider the fact(s) that

1) the scientific consensus agrees that most human being are almost equivalent in skills and intelligence to form decent social structures

2) Africa has a billion plus human being, the scale at which laws of large number dictates that their overall behavior should be close to human mean.

3) there have been advanced cultures in Africa in past, as recent as just before European colonization.

Keeping that in mind, reasonable people would agree that Africans are not inferior merely due to continent they are born upon. Is this the scientific level of proof that matches the 5 sigma precision coming out of LHC? No. But it is reasonable to expect so, and no proper scientific resources are being devoted to this micro-study, after most of Science has already has rejected idea that one large group of humans could be statistically inferior to other large group.

As a side note, you might not have realized it, but similar arguments have been used (and are still being used) by people who want to raise a rhetorical question, like how do you know that evolution explains x,y,z fact? More often than not, these people do not have intention of genuine questioning but rather want to show that ignorance of one detailed thought experiment is enough to discredit entire field of scientific evidence. It is thus not surprising that people would think that you belong to one of that group.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#74

Post by [deleted] »

ihnorton wrote: post #24
PakG1 wrote: post #15

I don't claim to understand African issues very well, so take my comments with the grain of salt that I'm very ignorant. The civil wars that happen in certain African nations are troubling. But what was more troubling to me was reading news how factions would take control by poisoning wells that provided water for citizens. It was unthinkable to me that someone could actually do that, especially in certain areas wher…

Kenya itself has been relatively stable and relatively peaceful for several decades. (there was some instability after an election in 2007, and there are simmering issues around the periphery - LRA in Uganda, fiefs in Somalia, continual intervention by Ethiopia in Somalia, North/South Sudan skirmishes).

[deleted]

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#75

Post by Maarten88 »

icoder wrote: post #56
JulienSchmidt wrote: post #39

Exclusive rights on this reserve bought by Nestlé in 3.. 2.. 1..? http://www.worldcrunch.com/poisoning-well-nestl-accused-expl...

This was exactly my thought after having seen a documentary about how Nestle does business

I saw that documentary too[1]. They will see this discovery not as 70 years of clean drinking water, but as 70 years of huge profits. They will do whatever it takes to buy exclusive rights and then pump it out as fast as they can (with little care for the environment), put it in bottles, then cleverly market and sell it to the local people who live there, for prizes that only the middle and upper classes can afford.

They make billions that way. Sickening.

Let's hope the government there will do good and keep multinationals like Nestle from ripping this water off the local people.

[1] http://www.uitzendinggemist.nl/afleveringen/1364866 (dutch)

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#76

Post by chrischen »

Joe-Z wrote: post #71
chrischen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I did not imply anything racist. I did not make any generalizations, about a race, a country, or EVEN a continent! Please listen to what I'm saying! Just because you constantly assert I'm a racist without actually listening to the substance and nuance of anything I have said does not make me a racist. Please, specifically point out what statement I said was a generalization about a race? Just because I do not…

I really shouldn't be getting into this, but whatever: Let's assume that you believe that "all men are born equal" and you know for yourself that you are not a war-mongering, savaging monster and that this are also not typical traits for other people around you. Then, from your believe that "alle men are born equal" it's just far more likely that people in africa would default to a similar, peaceful, state like you a…

First of all, pointing out something that's "negative" is not necessarily racism. "Negative" is also subjective.

For example: Japanese people are short. In the West (and actually most of the world), people would find it a negative statement. If it is negative (that somehow being short is bad), stating this fact is not racism. This is not to mention the fact that it's subjective whether being short is negative or not.

If you look at chad_oliver's post, you'll see that he claims (and provides a source) for the fact that Africans are statistically the most corrupt. This fact is not racism, nor is bringing it up racism, as long as you're just using the facts for what they are: facts.

Secondly, I NEVER made any claims about Africans being more corrupt than other people, or being war mongerers... so every argument about that you've made is moot. If I did make such a statement, please QUOTE me!

Finally, "all men are born equal" is false. The intent of the statement is that all men should be given equal opportunity under the law as if all men are born equal. The statement does not mean that all men are literally created equal. You can easily see this if you're not color blind. Asian people look different from black people, and white people look different as well. And it's not much of a logical leap to conclude that genetic, cultural, and societal differences don't just end at skin color. If you watch Colbert Report, Stephen Colbert often parodies this fallacious political correctness by claiming he is "color blind" and everyone has the same skin color to him. His belief that "all men are born equal" is fallacious, and that's what I was trying to point out by suggesting the opposite might also be true.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#77

Post by gpvos »

frozenport wrote: post #62
ChuckMcM wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took it to be reflexive satire based on a deep cynicism of anything 'good' being allowed to benefit the African people. Africa is complex, it's broken, and it is rich in resources. People from outside Africa have been exploiting it since wooden ships took its people to be their slaves to the present day where China signs "exclusive" mineral contracts with thugs. I heard a little cry of anguish that the poster has t…

Resource thing is not quite true, parts of sub-saharan Africa have valuable resources and parts don't. Resources play a larger factor in African economies because they have little else. For example, while South Africa has gold mines but this place appears to lack water.

Resources play a large role elsewhere too. Norway is stinking rich because it has oil (and is able to manage this well and distribute the riches among the population). Large parts of Europe try to be at least somewhat friendly with Russia because it has oil, etc. etc.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#78

Post by chrischen »

some_guy_there wrote: post #73
chrischen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I did not imply anything racist. I did not make any generalizations, about a race, a country, or EVEN a continent! Please listen to what I'm saying! Just because you constantly assert I'm a racist without actually listening to the substance and nuance of anything I have said does not make me a racist. Please, specifically point out what statement I said was a generalization about a race? Just because I do not…

> He does not know, nor do I. Yes, but there are level of beliefs that can be assigned to arbitrary hypothesis. Consider the fact(s) that 1) the scientific consensus agrees that most human being are almost equivalent in skills and intelligence to form decent social structures 2) Africa has a billion plus human being, the scale at which laws of large number dictates that their overall behavior should be close to human…

It doesn't matter what's probable or not. I never claimed any specific conclusion about Africans. I only claimed the OP's assertions that it must not be some intrinsic factor to be false. It is literally as simple as that.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#79

Post by ajuc »

chrischen wrote: post #27
chad_oliver wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise some important issues, but if anything I actually think that this aquifer is going to reduce the conflict in this area. The civil wars, rape, and poisoning are all symptoms of a deeper illness: poverty. Africans aren't more corrupt or warlike than anyone else, they're just poorer and therefore more desperate. Conflict minerals (diamonds, coltan, etc) fuel conflict because they are easy to control. It only t…

> Africans aren't more corrupt or warlike than anyone else How do you know? My history teacher never hesitated to teach us how Prussia was good at war, and how France sucked at war. Edit: this is an honest question. If I said anything wrong, please let me know as well.

Your history teacher thinks in stereotypes (or thinks only history between 1870 and 1945 is relevant). Nothing to be proud of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jena%E2%80%93Auersted...

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#80

Post by Joe-Z »

Joe-Z wrote: post #71
chrischen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I did not imply anything racist. I did not make any generalizations, about a race, a country, or EVEN a continent! Please listen to what I'm saying! Just because you constantly assert I'm a racist without actually listening to the substance and nuance of anything I have said does not make me a racist. Please, specifically point out what statement I said was a generalization about a race? Just because I do not…

I really shouldn't be getting into this, but whatever: Let's assume that you believe that "all men are born equal" and you know for yourself that you are not a war-mongering, savaging monster and that this are also not typical traits for other people around you. Then, from your believe that "alle men are born equal" it's just far more likely that people in africa would default to a similar, peaceful, state like you a…

@chrischen: (I cannot reploy to your latest comment)

All I was trying to do is explain how one might come to the conclusion that africans are not intrinsically more corrupt or warlike than other people (instead of the opposite).

I wasn't offended by your statement or wanted it to label as racism or anything. I'm sorry if you've misunderstood that.

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