Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#101

Post by yapcguy » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:49 PM UTC

cwilson wrote: post #81

pilif wrote: post #73

Now that we have to consider the iPhones to be backdoored by the NSA, I wonder whether I really want to give them my fingerprint together with the rest of my data. I'm also not so sure whether a fingerprint can't still be easily faked (like it was possible on that Mythbusters episode for example). Personally, I think I'd rather stay with my passcode. Did you btw know that you can turn off "simple passcode" and then u…

Apple specifically stated that your fingerprint is stored and encrypted only on the A7 chip, and not iCloud or anywhere else. It's mentioned in the video as well: http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch

What they didn't mention is that it's stored in the L2 cache ;-)

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#102

Post by pilif » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:49 PM UTC

cwilson wrote: post #81

pilif wrote: post #73

Now that we have to consider the iPhones to be backdoored by the NSA, I wonder whether I really want to give them my fingerprint together with the rest of my data. I'm also not so sure whether a fingerprint can't still be easily faked (like it was possible on that Mythbusters episode for example). Personally, I think I'd rather stay with my passcode. Did you btw know that you can turn off "simple passcode" and then u…

Apple specifically stated that your fingerprint is stored and encrypted only on the A7 chip, and not iCloud or anywhere else. It's mentioned in the video as well: http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch

Yes. And how exactly do we check this? Why is it that we can still trust Apple? For all we know, the data gets sent directly to the NSA or, if it doesn't, there might be some secret backdoor that will make the device send the data at a later point. The last round of leaks was specifically talking about backdoors with all bigger US companies in order to circumvent encryption.

That's what I means by "we have to consider the iPhones backdoored". Once you can't trust the device any more, all bets are off and thus we can't be sure that what Apple says they do with that fingerprint is what they actually are doing.

(edit: regarding jailbreaking, I seriously doubt that a sufficiently well-hidden backdoor would be found by a jailbreaker. Or have we found the backdoors in OSX or Windows yet? Since the latest leak, we know they are there)

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#103

Post by arrrg » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:51 PM UTC

rodedwards wrote: post #82

nutate wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new PayPal Beacon works with bluetooth LE... NFC seems like a step back from that.

Hmm - I'm not familiar with Beacon, but will take a look. In my mind, NFC has always sort of felt like a clunky way of imposing a physical constraint on what should be a purely electronic transaction.

NFC didn’t really break through in the market. Not yet, not ever, I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure that Apple is betting on Bluetooth LE, something their devices already have. I could see that work out.

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#104

Post by rdl » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:52 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #64

rdl wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what this will do to the resale value of iPhone 5 64G Verizon. I'd upgrade from 5 -> 5S if it net cost were <$300, but it appears Priceonomics says it is $320-$450, and a new iPhone 5S 64G is $849.

Verizon iPhone 5 64GB black is listed as $370 on NextWorth so that's a maybe. I've had luck in past years of reducing my upgrade costs to under $100, but AT&T is being less generous on the contract period this time around (or it didn't line up as well as in the past).

Yeah, I'll probably just list my 5 "high" on Amazon, and buy a 5S IFF it sells, or just pay the Apple tax for the year. I'm not sure how Verizon works with upgrades when you have multiple devices on an account (phone, 3 iPads, 2 Mifi); could I just upgrade one of the iPads I brought to an iPhone 5S and shuffle things around?

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#105

Post by bsimpson » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

rodedwards wrote: post #53

Better photos, TouchID, snappier performance -- a traditional incremental Apple upgrade befitting the "S" moniker. I've long been wondering when/if Apple would take on NFC and things like payments more aggressively. I get the feeling that they're going to skip NFC entirely, and that TouchID is going to be a large part of processing transactions without the need for any physical device interaction (swipe/tap/bump). Ri…

The motion coprocessor stuff sounds a lot like the Moto X.

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#106

Post by Cakez0r » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

cwilson wrote: post #81

pilif wrote: post #73

Now that we have to consider the iPhones to be backdoored by the NSA, I wonder whether I really want to give them my fingerprint together with the rest of my data. I'm also not so sure whether a fingerprint can't still be easily faked (like it was possible on that Mythbusters episode for example). Personally, I think I'd rather stay with my passcode. Did you btw know that you can turn off "simple passcode" and then u…

Apple specifically stated that your fingerprint is stored and encrypted only on the A7 chip, and not iCloud or anywhere else. It's mentioned in the video as well: http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch

Well as long as they specifically stated it! We can totally rely on their word.

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#107

Post by drinchev » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

pilif wrote: post #102

cwilson wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple specifically stated that your fingerprint is stored and encrypted only on the A7 chip, and not iCloud or anywhere else. It's mentioned in the video as well: http://www.apple.com/iphone-5s/videos/#video-touch

Yes. And how exactly do we check this? Why is it that we can still trust Apple? For all we know, the data gets sent directly to the NSA or, if it doesn't, there might be some secret backdoor that will make the device send the data at a later point. The last round of leaks was specifically talking about backdoors with all bigger US companies in order to circumvent encryption. That's what I means by "we have to conside…

I'm pretty sure, when they jailbreak it the truth will come out. And I doubt Apple would take the risk for lying about that.

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#108

Post by rayiner » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:54 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #83

I'm still weirded out by the idea that Apple has finally split the iPhone line into "premium" and "value" streams. It just seems so... un-Apple. The whole "last-year's-model" discount was a bit of a kludge, but still Apple stood out from the rest of the industry with such a simple product line - device, biannual release, size, that's it.

Apple has had premium and value lines before. Indeed, during the heyday of the Macbook, it was split into a premium aluminum and a cheaper polycarbonate model.

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#109

Post by pilif » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:54 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #95

pilif wrote: post #73

Now that we have to consider the iPhones to be backdoored by the NSA, I wonder whether I really want to give them my fingerprint together with the rest of my data. I'm also not so sure whether a fingerprint can't still be easily faked (like it was possible on that Mythbusters episode for example). Personally, I think I'd rather stay with my passcode. Did you btw know that you can turn off "simple passcode" and then u…

Serious question -- what is the big deal if someone gets your fingerprints? I can't think of the last time my fingerprint was used as some infallible method of identification, if ever. If the spooks want it, they already have it. I'd rather someone get their hands on my fingerprint than my passport, driver's license, and credit cards, and it seems much more difficult to steal than those things. I think the fingerprin…

The problem is that I can't change my fingerprint. If it gets out by some third-party abusing the secret backdoor (or just abusing whatever other place you have your fingerprint stored), then they can potentially forge your fingerprint when committing a crime or when otherwise attempting to access resources you have access to.

When a third-party loses your password, you change it and life goes on (you are not reusing passwords, are you?). When a third-party loses your fingerprint, what do you do? Cut off your fingers? Grow a new hand?

Yes. The fingerprint information is supposed to be irreversibly hashed. But so are passwords. And yet we still see them being stored unencrypted. No. I'm very careful with my fingerprints.

Also, the data on my phone must be some of the most valuable data I have. When I lose my phone and you gain access, you immediately own all my online identities. My phone has SSH keys, it has the password to my Email account stored in its keychain (very handy for all these "I have forgotten my password" features on all the sites), it has my 2 factor authentication tokens - I can't even begin to imagine how bad it would be if somebody had access to my phone.

Yours is probably as valuable to you.

Re: Apple Unveils The iPhone 5S

#110

Post by Jtsummers » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 6:54 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #104

Jtsummers wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verizon iPhone 5 64GB black is listed as $370 on NextWorth so that's a maybe. I've had luck in past years of reducing my upgrade costs to under $100, but AT&T is being less generous on the contract period this time around (or it didn't line up as well as in the past).

Yeah, I'll probably just list my 5 "high" on Amazon, and buy a 5S IFF it sells, or just pay the Apple tax for the year. I'm not sure how Verizon works with upgrades when you have multiple devices on an account (phone, 3 iPads, 2 Mifi); could I just upgrade one of the iPads I brought to an iPhone 5S and shuffle things around?

I am not the person to ask about Verizon. I'm with AT&T because of my unlimited data plan and their excellent coverage in this area. That said, I'm considering something similar for upgrading to the 5S, NextWorth was just a place to look at prices to gauge what I should try and sell it for. I also only have the one data plan on AT&T, never got one for my iPad (wifi only).