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To my daughter's high school programming teacher

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Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#461

Post by EdgarVerona »

WoodenChair wrote: post #364
EdgarVerona wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, and that is not going to change unless we privatize education. Or start paying higher taxes so that public education is given the funding they need to implement these programs.

We spend the fourth most per pupil of any country in the world: http://www.businessinsider.com/us-education-spending-compare... Money is not the answer - in fact some of the states that spend the most, have the worst results.

That is a good point as well - beyond the monetary needs is the need to cut out the bullshit that has impeded our school systems. We've got a lot of people lining their pockets at the expense of quality education, and we've got a lot of terrible teaching strategies/ideologies that have hurt education more than it ever helped. Would a private system help that, or would it stratify who has access to education at all? I don't honestly know the answer to that. But something has got to give.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#462

Post by highstep »

ForrestN wrote: post #421
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #353

The entitled and largely unconscious male privilege in most of these HN comments is pretty hard to stomach against the large and steadily-accumulating picture of just how very different this industry presents itself to men and to women. Just because you don't directly experience or see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because you haven't been (consciously) chauvinistic to a woman doesn't mean women don't experi…

I can only really think of two ways of understanding the extreme gender imbalance in these jobs. Either there are systemic discriminatory forces at work, or women are somehow inherently ill-suited for programming jobs (ie. because of cognitive deficiency). I worry, but of course couldn't prove, that the sort of responses you get to proposing the former betray that many people subconsciously believe the latter. To tho…

"cognitive deficiency"??? Please consider the possibility that just because someone else's mind doesn't excel in the same way yours does, it doesn't necessarily mean their mind is deficient! I believe your choice of words demonstrates well the bias that is at the root of the problem we are discussing.

IMO nerd superiority is the most unbecoming pervasive trait found in the tech industry.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#463

Post by tcfunk »

Uchikoma wrote: post #282
DanBC wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at least three times he mentions SHE.

Thanks. The gender of a poster seems very important to you. It's not important to me.

I actually missed the fact that the poster was a woman for the majority of the article.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#464

Post by racl101 »

Another parent in America blaming someone else for how their children turn out or what they experience.

Seriously, how is it the teacher's fault that other boys were raised to be chauvinistic?

Maybe the mother might want to raise the issue with the parents of other kids because, as always, the state and the values of kids begins with the parents.

Leave the teacher out of it.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#465

Post by ArtDev »

weland wrote: post #449
RyanMcGreal wrote: post #353

The entitled and largely unconscious male privilege in most of these HN comments is pretty hard to stomach against the large and steadily-accumulating picture of just how very different this industry presents itself to men and to women. Just because you don't directly experience or see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because you haven't been (consciously) chauvinistic to a woman doesn't mean women don't experi…

I tend to agree with the points you are making -- I certainly don't mean to derail this by a straw man argument, like it already happened above. But I think the importance of this particular incident is... well, somewhat overstated. Because: > So, you see, I was all too familiar with what my daughter was going through, but I was unprepared for the harassment to start in high school, in her programming class. Really?…

"We were a bunch of stupid fucks"..

Guess what? In High School many of us were quite together and tried our best to have fun while avoiding people like you.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#466

Post by EdgarVerona »

swamp40 wrote: post #445
EdgarVerona wrote: post #284

I've got a couple of problems with the tone and where the finger is pointed in this article, though I sympathize with her plight. 1) I feel like attacking the teacher is unfair. There is a much more significant root cause that should be addressed, and the teacher's inability to detect her bullying is merely a symptom of that root cause. Bullying is terrible - I experienced that myself for alternative reasons in Middl…

Teachers are the leaders of the classrooms. Same as with all leaders anywhere, in addition to their main goals (teaching the material, sailing a ship, etc.), they must maintain discipline and right any wrongs. If anything goes wrong, they are the ones ultimately responsible. It is not fair, but being a good teacher requires more than just the ability to teach a specific subject. These qualities can be taught, and thi…

Her suggestions are good, but the vast majority of them are unrealistic in a world where we have 30+ kids in a classroom. We have a problem here, and I feel strongly that the problem is class sizes. Blaming the teacher is akin to a tile falling from a shoddily constructed roof and killing someone, and then blaming the tile for the death.

If this teacher saw what was happening and refused to stop it... sure, blame the teacher in that situation. I'd join you in blaming them. But I can't in good conscience blame a teacher for not noticing bullying inside - or outside - of a classroom with the overloaded nature of our school system. Give teachers a 10:1 - or hell, even a 15:1 - student to teacher ratio if you want the kind of one-on-one support she suggests. That would be a fantastic world, and I would love to see that come to pass.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#467

Post by ArtDev »

IanDrake wrote: post #451
weland wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree with the points you are making -- I certainly don't mean to derail this by a straw man argument, like it already happened above. But I think the importance of this particular incident is... well, somewhat overstated. Because: > So, you see, I was all too familiar with what my daughter was going through, but I was unprepared for the harassment to start in high school, in her programming class. Really?…

Thanks for writing this. I was thinking the same thing. Most everyone has had this problem at one point in time. It seems to me that mom needs to teach her daughter to have a thicker skin...which is the EXACT same lesson I got from my parents.

When your kid feels harassed and bullied telling them to just "have thicker skin" is not going to cut it.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#469

Post by racl101 »

nsfyn55 wrote: post #50

My experience in the professional world is that its full of assertive, aggressive individuals men and women included. There are only so many slots at the top and the ones not occupied by the CEO's nephew belong to thick skinned individuals who have endured a careers worth of mental/emotional abuse. How many times have your heard someone utter the words "My boss/colleague/lead is an idiot." Is it a disservice to creat…

I agree. You can't protect kids from each and every threat. you cannot fight their battles for them all the time. But what you can do is prepare them with the confidence and the knowledge to begin fighting. At some point your kid needs to build character by encountering adversaries. The boys telling the girl to make sammiches are one of many that she'll encounter in life.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#470

Post by ArtDev »

hacker789 wrote: post #263
etfb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a learning moment for you, Mr stefantalpalaru. What you've just said, although I know you meant it sanely and sensibly, has been interpreted as lacking in compassion. This is not your fault; what happened is you have made a comment from a position of unrecognised privilege. For your own good, and the good of any women you may have any kind of relationship with now and into the future, it would be a very good…

It's probably safe to assume that you're parodying the nakedly Orwellian nature of third-wave feminists, but I'm going to respond just in case this is a serious post. This use of "privilege" as a targeted weapon to silence specific demographics has to stop. Women in the western world have always been among the safest, most privileged people on Earth. This entire thread, in fact, has been a shining example of female p…

Another apologist on HN, what a surprise.. Let me guess.. you are a white male. Nice. So am I. We have no idea what its like..

Gender equality in America has come a long way. However, there are still many occupations and places in America where equality is not the norm at all.

The best example of an occupation where women are not welcome is the military.

The best example of inequality in the courts is this recent case: http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/09/hacker-faces-more-jail-time...

Inequality is all around us.

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