To my daughter's high school programming teacher • Hacker News Board

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#41

Post by jessedhillon » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:39 AM UTC

bangbang wrote: post #9

I cringe reading this. Since when it is alright to tell teachers how to do their job in bullet pointed letters? * Be an adult and talk about any issues, complements or concerns during the class. * Talk with them in person or on the phone. * If you wish, post to your blog after the issues have been resolved. To put a global context on the situation should be supported with evidence as it pertains to life as a women in…

One time in college, I went to a busy ice cream restaurant with some friends of mine (Fenton's in Emeryville).

After entering, we saw there was just one single open table, so we went and put our jackets down on it and then got into line. After getting our ice cream we went back to the table only to find our jackets gone and some fat people sitting there, eating ice cream with their fat kids.

When I asked where our jackets were, a man, presumably the father of the obese family, told us that there were "some jackets" on the table but that they had the security guard come and clear them. As we went to find our coats, he informed us that "putting your jacket on the table doesn't count" for reserving a table.

In reading your post I am reminded of the certitude with which this large, stupid man asserted the correctness of an arbitrary and stupid set of rules, completely of his own making.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#42

Post by jurassic » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:39 AM UTC

danso wrote: post #2

Ugh...I saw the title and had positive expectations because usually, it seems, letters to high school teachers are positive, as in: "My teenage child was depressed but your class made her love school again, etc. etc." A couple of takeaways: 1. The fact that the OP's daughter signed up for programming class because she wanted to impress her parent is truly a parenting win. Not just for programming, but anything , at t…

My 2004 CS class was Visual Basic. The instructor didn't know anything, but its hard to hold that against a guy making ~$40k/yr at midcareer. Instead of a competent teacher, we had textbooks that we were expected to work through one chapter at a time. I suspect the OP's daughter was brought in for a similar type of education, and the textbooks just haven't been updated since the early 2000s. That's really the only logical explanation for teaching a class in VB in 2013.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#43

Post by Pxtl » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:39 AM UTC

Maybe it's an age thing, but is it just me or is this phenomenon really new? When I was a kid, geeks were inclusive. Weird and horny and therefore prone to awkward creepiness, but not hostile.

Was it always like this and I just need to "check my privilege" as a dude or has the 4chanification of geek culture invaded real life?

And as for the VB, VB.Net is actually an okay language if you expose them to modern features. I mean, the boolean algebra syntax is weird, as are the array sizing, and the "Dim" keyword is just dumb... but other than those legacy issues the rest of the language is just "C# with words and a smaller community". Not great, but not that bad - there's modern closures/lambdas and full OOP and generics and all that great stuff.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#44

Post by patmcc » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:40 AM UTC

revelation wrote: post #4

If CS education in the USA is anything like here, the teacher of this class will be the unlucky fellow assigned with maintaining the school networks and other random "computer stuff". His qualification will be that of an interested layman, augmented by several one day seminars on random topics from Office to Java. There is simply no curriculum, there are no standards and no requirements, and if we are honest, the lev…

That's not the problem described in the article though - it's an entirely non-technical issue about harassment, sexism, and general acceptable classroom behaviour. It's not about the level of computing knowledge at all.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#45

Post by voltagex_ » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:40 AM UTC

"how were you even able to make programming boring?"

Puts into words the question I've been trying to ask some of my teachers for so long, but haven't been able to.

I know programming isn't intrinsically interesting to everyone, but I think there is still magic to be found in seeing your instructions (in VB, Pascal, C, Logo, whatever) translated to something on the screen.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#46

Post by glesica » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:41 AM UTC

smoyer wrote: post #18

Is Visual Basic really any worse than what you'd be exposed to at a Drupal conference? I think you'd be hard-pressed to explain why you chose anything beyond a 4th generation scripting language if you were starting a new class with an unlimited budget. Schools are often behind with this sort of technology, so depending on the development environment available, isn't one language as good as the next to explain concept…

I don't disagree with you, strictly speaking, but I do understand how VB might not be the best way to get people interested in programming. While JavaScript is, in my very humble opinion, a rather poor "first language", I understand why so many people seem to want to use it as such, because it is easy to get "neat" results.

When I was a youngster, I thought the copy of VB 5 my dad got me was the coolest thing ever, because being able to create "real" computer programs like the ones I used every day was super-awesome-sweet. Today, kids are much more likely to interact with mobile apps and web sites. So teaching them to make those things is more likely to be exciting, the way Windows GUI apps were for me in the 90s.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#47

Post by Pxtl » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:41 AM UTC

pyj wrote: post #32

I got a feeling that the OP was ranting due to her own hurt feelings rather than her daughter's. I failed to see anything out of the extraordinary that made the teacher deserve such harsh criticism. Yes she was harassed by some boys, I agree that sucks and the teacher should do something about it. I have a baby daughter my self and can imagine the feelings if I heard she got harassed by her schoolmates, but then I wo…

> I got a feeling that the OP was ranting due to her own hurt feelings rather than her daughter's. I failed to see anything out of the extraordinary that made the teacher deserve such harsh criticism.

The classroom culture is the teacher's responsibility. If a student is being harassed and has a hostile environment in this classroom, the teacher has failed in a serious way. Doubly-so when the harassment is driven by bigotry.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#48

Post by bangbang » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:41 AM UTC

danso wrote: post #19

bangbang wrote: post #9

I cringe reading this. Since when it is alright to tell teachers how to do their job in bullet pointed letters? * Be an adult and talk about any issues, complements or concerns during the class. * Talk with them in person or on the phone. * If you wish, post to your blog after the issues have been resolved. To put a global context on the situation should be supported with evidence as it pertains to life as a women in…

Two things: 1. The OP did reach out to the teacher: > I suggested that she talk to you. I offered to talk to you. I offered to come talk to the class. I offered to send one of my male friends, perhaps a well-known local programmer, to go talk to the class. Finally, my daughter decided to plow through, finish the class, and avoid all her classmates. I hate to think what less-confident girls would have done in the same…

When this child grows up, there will be no parent to write a blog post. My point being, we all have to learn to navigate this difficult world. Stern letters from mom eventually have to stop.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#49

Post by coolnow » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:41 AM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #17

trigger alert: Linux user at 11 asks for MacBook Pro at 16

Also, is it common for 16 year olds to ask for a car in the US? I asked my mum to make my favourite food, and some money so i could go out with friends. Compared to "a car" or a Macbook Pro, it sounds like i had a deprived life.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#50

Post by nsfyn55 » Tue, Sep 10, 2013, 1:41 AM UTC

My experience in the professional world is that its full of assertive, aggressive individuals men and women included. There are only so many slots at the top and the ones not occupied by the CEO's nephew belong to thick skinned individuals who have endured a careers worth of mental/emotional abuse. How many times have your heard someone utter the words "My boss/colleague/lead is an idiot." Is it a disservice to create these mushy teeball environments where everyone gets to be an astronaut?