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To my daughter's high school programming teacher

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Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#151

Post by numo16 »

yeukhon wrote: post #39
spamizbad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Programming I class was taught by a math teacher (who was an excellent algebra instructor). Unfortunately he was only a chapter ahead of the class in computer programming. But that wasn't the worst part. For guidance, he turned to his brother-in-law, who was a manager of developers at Motorola. He stated as much the first day of class, boasting "You're going to have the rare treat of learning how programming is do…

How does he get through the course certification? Shouldn't he has to demonstrate he has the qualification to teach CS class? Is this a high school from a small town? I'd imagine in NYC this could mean firing the school's principal if New York Daily finds out.

From what I understand (gf just finished her education degree, michigan secondary ed), there isn't really a teachers certification for computer programming/CS classes in secondary. It is generally taught by someone who shows interest in teaching it AND if there is an opening for the class in the schedule AND if there is a budget to allow that elective AND it doesn't get in the way of whatever the school's administration deems to be important. The state of it is quite sad really...I know at the high school I graduated from, there was a programming course that was taught by the typing teacher, at one point (was no longer available by the time I would have been able to take it).

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#152

Post by consultutah »

peter-fogg wrote: post #63
[deleted] wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Yes, none of the teams you've worked on have needed any explicit bans on behavior that's considered unacceptable in society. That's because you've worked on teams with adult humans (maybe assuming here), who don't need to be told the rules. High school kids still need some reminders that there is a normal way of interacting with others, like not suggesting that the only girl in the class be relegated to the kitchen.…

I have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies. How many poor kids lifes' have been ruined by pointing their finger and saying, "Pew, pew" by idiot school administrators that are too stupid to think objectively?

That said, this teaches does need to be reprimanded at very least for laziness and not paying attention to what was going on in his class and possibly for creating the environment where it was allowed as well.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#153

Post by cookiecaper »

kaitai wrote: post #135
cookiecaper wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Which real world are you advocating this high school programming class introduce to a 16-year-old girl? The real world where HR thought police aren't sitting in every room of every company. The real world where even HR people try to "make jokes" and be funny. The real world where HR people generally judge the severity of a harassment complaint by favoritism, which reality a blunt HR person (not employed at my curren…

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why 16-year-old girls leave programming. Remember, guys ganging up on you and telling them to make them a sandwich is just funny! You're so thin-skinned, ladies! thought police! http://hoydenabouttown.com/20110218.9512/sexist-joke-bingo/ ...almost got bingo... good work, cookiecaper.

I didn't say it was funny or that being offended wasn't an OK response. I simply believe that we should handle potentially "offensive" situations wisely, instead of curling up and quitting. It is more than fine to voice your complaint and indicate that a so-called joke makes you uncomfortable and expect your peers to respect those feelings. It is also an effective requirement to recognize that you aren't always going to be able to get people to stop saying things you don't like, and that you can't let it cripple you.

And I only see hits in two squares on the "sexist joke bingo", not that it matters.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#154

Post by NoodleIncident »

GhotiFish wrote: post #51

I would of posted this in her comment section, but the requirements for signing up are beyond the pale of acceptable. "Thanks to my career, my daughter's Facebook friends list includes Linux conference organizers, an ARM developer and Linux kernel contributor, open source advocates, and other tech journalists." I, am so jealous right now. "but I was unprepared for the harassment to start in high school, in her progra…

> That's hard to notice for a specific student when that's happening to 30% of the class, don't you think?

Not to mention 70% of the teachers.

I took a mandatory class (keyboarding) from a friend of my grandparents', the first year he taught. I saw first hand how much the apathy of the class wore him down. He started the year hoping he could get people at least vaguely interested, but no one cared, and there was no way he could force them to.

He quit after a year.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#155

Post by dandrews »

hga wrote: post #96
yeukhon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does he get through the course certification? Shouldn't he has to demonstrate he has the qualification to teach CS class? Is this a high school from a small town? I'd imagine in NYC this could mean firing the school's principal if New York Daily finds out.

My high school programming course, in 1977---IBM 1130 FORTRAN 'IV'---was taught by a coach . Who, without referring to notes, nor was it in the book, one day taught us 2s compliment representation on the blackboard (and boy was it useful to get a peek under the hood!). I suspect, like in the real world, programming ability still sometimes counts more than credentials. Pity that unlike my teacher he wasn't so good at…

Heh, Louden's book? Still got it here somewhere. For an hour of nostalgic fun and an excuse to burn a Bass Ale while your wife watches DWTS, take a look at the 1130 emulator at http://ibm1130.org/sim

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#156

Post by tinha »

Nursie wrote: post #52
ryanx435 wrote: post #3

my theory is that there are not a lot of women in tech jobs because the men in tech jobs generally don't know how to interact with women. any woman that shows an interest in tech is not disuaded by the material, but rather by the inability of her male coworkers to treat her normally. I would not want to work or study in an environment surrounded by social akwardness and harassment either. the problem lies with the me…

I don't think this applies to anywhere near the number of men the stereotype would apply it to. I've worked in very successful mixed teams in a variety of companies. What's more I think the stereotype is harmful in itself. It provides an excuse for some men to act like assholes and it affects the perception of the rest by the outside world. I have also seen misogyny and incredibly awful behaviour in the workplace. Th…

I agree with you, as someone that heard from a colleague "to go to the kitchen and do the dishes", instead of helping him with the problem he was facing. I was his superior at the time.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#157

Post by pflats »

yeukhon wrote: post #25
nullgeo wrote: post #8

I also had a teacher in HS that taught Visual Basic in a computer programming class. Not VB.Net, but VB6, and this was 4 years ago. And they removed AP Computer Science that same year, when I was about to take it, that's why I had to settle with the class that taught VB. The state of HS education in this country makes me sad.

It used to be C++ for AP Computer Science, no? Anyhow. It used to be C++ for my high school and just a year or two before I was a freshman (that was 2006) it became Java.

C++ was a short run, something like '99-'03. It was Pascal beforehand and Java afterwards.

There's no AB course any more either. It's just one course, the equivalent of the old A.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#158

Post by daxelrod »

nsfyn55 wrote: post #50

My experience in the professional world is that its full of assertive, aggressive individuals men and women included. There are only so many slots at the top and the ones not occupied by the CEO's nephew belong to thick skinned individuals who have endured a careers worth of mental/emotional abuse. How many times have your heard someone utter the words "My boss/colleague/lead is an idiot." Is it a disservice to creat…

I understand that you're advocating for helping people develop a thick skin. Where I take objection is when you start talking about abuse. There's enough other kinds of adversity out there to be resilient against.

> My experience in the professional world is that its full of assertive, aggressive individuals men and women included.

It's possible to be assertive and aggressive without being abusive.

> There are only so many slots at the top

Not everyone wants to get to the "top".

> Is it a disservice to create these mushy teeball environments

They certainly sound better than environments full of mental/emotional abuse. Why can't we create abuse-free environments in the real world, too?

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#159

Post by kaitai »

rossjudson wrote: post #82
oceanstone wrote: post #33

It's too bad the teacher was too weak to protect your daughter's honor, and ensure decency in the classroom. High school can be a cruel place. I hope she realizes those hurtful comments didn't represent her at all. It was just scared boys searching for some semblance of masculinity they may never find.

Johnny, you did great in my class. You did well in the assignments and were heading for a nice B. But you know what? I'm knocking that down to a C for one simple reason -- you acted like a sexist fool towards Susan and created a hostile environment. You're not the only one. Karl and Larry and getting downgraded too. This isn't on your permanent record...yet. Don't do it again. Grow up. What made you think this behavi…

That is also terrible teaching. A good teacher sets up a productive classroom environment from the beginning, with expectations set out in words and also modeled in behavior (calling on a wide variety of students, modeling how to ask questions about a student's thoughts, modeling how to give praise and criticism, giving a continual example of how to work through problems). When issues like negative interaction between students come up it's easy enough to set up a group work lesson that separates problem personalities, put people in groups with supportive folks, leave alone students who want to be left alone and try to channel energy in the right direction. I've worked with nerdy teenage boys and socially awkward types of all genders, and it's a matter of skill to deal with this but that is after all the job!

For instance, I had a student (13 yrs old?) in an advanced math class that was all male (I'm female) and he had a habit of starting to blurt out mildly veiled sexual comments to me. I said a few things to him about what was appropriate in class, in a kind way and privately, and I also arranged for a male administrator to chat with him. It stopped. Grades have nothing to do with this -- they're not effective in any way in setting classroom tone, especially as they're feedback far after the semester ends.

I'm sorry for all these Hacker News readers who had shitty high school experiences, but you do need to grow up and realize they were shitty. Turning around to dump the shit downhill -- or indulging in some sort of Stockholm syndrome -- is not going to make the world a better place and it does not make you a better person.

I don't always do things perfectly; I remember one female student who was being aggressively and unwillingly courted by a football player in one of my classes and I wasn't able to prevent all the distraction. But I noticed and did what I could, and commented to them separately about what is and isn't alright in the classroom. Seriously, folks, it's not that hard to have expectations for appropriate behavior and enforce them.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#160

Post by jacalata »

bragh wrote: post #136
jacalata wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must have had one horrific childhood if your bar for "nothing wrong at school" is "no violence or rape". If you ever have kids, I hope you aim a little higher for them.

A school with "no violence or rape" wouldn't be just nothing wrong, it would be extraordinary. Even elite schools in developed and rich countries are filled with bullying: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/28/swedish-school-... Maybe you really ought to think about which school you went into in which neighborhood, which social clique you were a part of and if you still think no bullying happened, maybe it's t…

I went to an all girls school, and while I'm sure there was bullying, there was definitely no violence or rape.
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