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To my daughter's high school programming teacher

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Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#81

Post by sliverstorm »

yeukhon wrote: post #70
eru wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? On paper I can describe those lecture in glowing terms, if necessary. Just rewriting spamizbad's comment with the right buzzwords, and leaving out the student dissatisfaction.

Well same is true for any class right? haha. the question is, why would we want someone no experience with programming to teach programming class to our kids?

Because it's that, or nothing? It's not like high schools are rolling in money. Even if they could afford to hire an extra teacher just to teach programming, what programmer would want to teach for $20k when he can make (at least according to HN) $120k in the industry?

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#82

Post by rossjudson »

oceanstone wrote: post #33

It's too bad the teacher was too weak to protect your daughter's honor, and ensure decency in the classroom. High school can be a cruel place. I hope she realizes those hurtful comments didn't represent her at all. It was just scared boys searching for some semblance of masculinity they may never find.

Johnny, you did great in my class. You did well in the assignments and were heading for a nice B. But you know what? I'm knocking that down to a C for one simple reason -- you acted like a sexist fool towards Susan and created a hostile environment. You're not the only one. Karl and Larry and getting downgraded too. This isn't on your permanent record...yet. Don't do it again. Grow up. What made you think this behavior was acceptable?

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#83

Post by gaadd33 »

yeukhon wrote: post #39
spamizbad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Programming I class was taught by a math teacher (who was an excellent algebra instructor). Unfortunately he was only a chapter ahead of the class in computer programming. But that wasn't the worst part. For guidance, he turned to his brother-in-law, who was a manager of developers at Motorola. He stated as much the first day of class, boasting "You're going to have the rare treat of learning how programming is do…

How does he get through the course certification? Shouldn't he has to demonstrate he has the qualification to teach CS class? Is this a high school from a small town? I'd imagine in NYC this could mean firing the school's principal if New York Daily finds out.

Does NYC/NYS have certifications for programming/CS? It appears the only NYS certification for technology is a content specific one called "technology education" which I doubt has much of a focus on programming and probably more of a general "how to use computers" focus.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#84

Post by jacalata »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #53
cookiecaper wrote: post #15

So, was this article about the student's experience or the mother's? Because it reads like it's about the mother. The guys in class suggested that their peer go make a sandwich. That's the only accusation actually made against the class and the teacher. While I don't endorse such teasing, it's certainly in no way specific to computer programming, and it's not anything like the intensity one would expect when trolls f…

It is about the student's experience reflected in the eyes of a mother. Parents are not known for their objectivity when it comes to children, but in this case the (rather far fetched) idea that the evil boys and their sandwich jokes made her daughter dislike programming found fertile ground in the whole "designated victim" narrative of women in online environments. There is no violence and rape in this story, there'…

You must have had one horrific childhood if your bar for "nothing wrong at school" is "no violence or rape". If you ever have kids, I hope you aim a little higher for them.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#85

Post by spamizbad »

yeukhon wrote: post #39
spamizbad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Programming I class was taught by a math teacher (who was an excellent algebra instructor). Unfortunately he was only a chapter ahead of the class in computer programming. But that wasn't the worst part. For guidance, he turned to his brother-in-law, who was a manager of developers at Motorola. He stated as much the first day of class, boasting "You're going to have the rare treat of learning how programming is do…

How does he get through the course certification? Shouldn't he has to demonstrate he has the qualification to teach CS class? Is this a high school from a small town? I'd imagine in NYC this could mean firing the school's principal if New York Daily finds out.

This was not part of the AP curriculum, but it was billed (by the school) as a pre-req for AP Computer Science.

It also wasn't really a CS class. It was more like a clumsy introduction to computer programming. The class never intended to cover data structures or algorithms.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#86

Post by jessedhillon »

bangbang wrote: post #35
hfern wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I was attending SC '12 in Salt Lake City last November, my daughter emailed to tell me that the boys in her class were harassing her. "They told me to get in the kitchen and make them sandwiches," she said. Even if you think the parent is overstepping their bounds here, I would rather a parent be too concerned as oppose to not being concerned at all. Double so that he is in the tech sector while we are facing…

Kids say terrible things. This isn't the sign of a bad teacher or a worthy of a internet rant, it's an opportunity to prepare her kids (Not just the girls) for the real full-contact brutal reality known is the the real working world.

Oh.

Just curious, where's the line on this? Like, what things is she allowed to attempt to draw public attention to, and what things should she just counsel her daughter to learn to live with, and accept as a part of life?

How should a person know what sorts of circumstances belong on which side of that line? Are these written in a book somewhere that I missed?

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#87

Post by waveman2 »

tptacek wrote: post #76
waveman2 wrote: post #69

According to the author she did nothing about the problem at the time ie did not talk to the teacher, but is now more than happy to create drama by the track. The author's qualifications in teaching appears to be zero, and her qualifications in programming seem to be that she is a tech journalist and author of a work of fiction. Why should the teacher have any notice of her? The extent of the problem is that some peo…

You were bullied viciously in high school, and the perverse result appears to be that you've become in adulthood a defender of bullying.

No I am saying that trivia is trivia. What happened is at worst micro-bullying.

Actually I suspect the daughter did not want to do the course, was pressured into it by her mother and pickup on on this minor incident as an excuse to stop the course.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#88

Post by zeckalpha »

zenocon wrote: post #34

My favorite comment...a tad subtle: > During the first semester of my daughter's junior/senior year, she took her first programming class. She knew I'd be thrilled, but she did it anyway . Edit: before anyone harangues me, I don't mean to take away from the shitty circumstances surrounding the core message in the post, just got a chuckle out of the subtle dad/daughter humor inserted.

Try mother/daughter.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#89

Post by gph »

patmcc wrote: post #44
revelation wrote: post #4

If CS education in the USA is anything like here, the teacher of this class will be the unlucky fellow assigned with maintaining the school networks and other random "computer stuff". His qualification will be that of an interested layman, augmented by several one day seminars on random topics from Office to Java. There is simply no curriculum, there are no standards and no requirements, and if we are honest, the lev…

That's not the problem described in the article though - it's an entirely non-technical issue about harassment, sexism, and general acceptable classroom behaviour. It's not about the level of computing knowledge at all.

I think you're missing the point of the parent comment. All teachers have to go through a degree/certificate program that would train them on how to deal with high school kids and what to do about harassment, etc. The guy teaching this class is probably just an IT guy at the school whom they recruited into 'teaching' this class.

That's how it was at my high school. It was the network/IT guy that taught the class. He was really cool and a pretty damn good teacher, but I don't know if he'd be able to spot harassment like this or do anything about it. We didn't have any girls in our class anyway, so I guess my anecdote can't add anything to that.

Edit: Actually reading the other comments by the parent shows me that you interpreted it correctly. Still I think what I said has some merit to it.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#90

Post by lmartel »

etfb wrote: post #71
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is about the student's experience reflected in the eyes of a mother. Parents are not known for their objectivity when it comes to children, but in this case the (rather far fetched) idea that the evil boys and their sandwich jokes made her daughter dislike programming found fertile ground in the whole "designated victim" narrative of women in online environments. There is no violence and rape in this story, there'…

This is a learning moment for you, Mr stefantalpalaru. What you've just said, although I know you meant it sanely and sensibly, has been interpreted as lacking in compassion. This is not your fault; what happened is you have made a comment from a position of unrecognised privilege. For your own good, and the good of any women you may have any kind of relationship with now and into the future, it would be a very good…

Poe's law in action. I have legitimately no idea whether this is mean-spirited satire or earnest bullshit.

If you are NOT being sarcastic: there are productive ways to talk about these (important) issues, be it gender, race, whatever--but this sort of "privilege" circlejerk is a huge waste of time as well as hugely condescending.

If you have a point to make then make it. Sitting around in a Privilege Circle saying "oh, no, I'm worse, you're white but I'm straight" is slacktivist bullshit at its worst.

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