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'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#131

Post by WayneDB »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #126
WayneDB wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can you agree that these people complaining about tit jokes are not accepting many other people's opinion that tit jokes are funny and that people should be free to joke about them if they wish? > Someone's throwing their toys around today? How so? By pointing out your illogical stance?

> But can you agree that these people complaining about tit jokes are not accepting many other people's opinion that tit jokes are funny and that people should be free to joke about them if they wish? Hell no. This is standard derailing junk. It goes "my freedom to be an arsehole and drive people away is just as important as other people's desire to work in an arsehole-free environment." It's childish and inconsidera…

> It's childish and inconsiderate.

That's your fucking opinion though.

> I leave it to you to work out..blah blah blah.

Oh gawd. What a fucking cop-out. Stop replying to me you chicken shit.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#132

Post by WayneDB »

sp332 wrote: post #129
WayneDB wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said "One other part of sexism is sexual objectification, which reduces the person or whole gender to an instrument of sexual pleasure." And I said that nobody was reduced to being just a sexual object.

The screen literally just had tits. The whole point of the app was to look at tits. There was nothing else of a woman involved. They really did just take the "tits" part and exclude the rest!

Yeah, great argument. So if you hear a drum, you have no concept of a drummer?

No, you're right - men who see just a pair of tits think "that's all I need - nothing attached, just the tits pleaze, tyvm."

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#133

Post by sambeau »

Grue3 wrote: post #67
sambeau wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about women at all. sigh In an already male-biased community the non-inclusivity of demos like these put out a very specific message to women: this is not for you . The tit staring demo puts out a worse message: this is not for you—you are just a sex object to us . If you were a female hacker how would that make you feel your work will be judged by your male peers? Turn it around in your head, if you can, to…

>In an already male-biased community the non-inclusivity of demos like these put out a very specific message to women: this is not for you. It's just one demo. And it's ok for an app to be not for any specific sex, not that there's any reason why women can't play CircleShake. Not every app should be for everyone. And I agree that TitStare is terrible. I just don't understand why the completely unrelated app is brough…

The problem with CircleShake was not the App itself but the sniggeringly-schoolboy manner in which it was presented.

Schoolboy humour is something that boys (and men) do when they get together in all-male environments. It is reasonably harmless in that context.

As soon as you engage in this sort of behaviour in a public context like this you give the signal that this is an all-male environment.

Hacking is not an all-male environment and it should strive to be inclusive. To do that we need to remove the all-male pack behaviour and to do that we need to start by cleaning up our public spaces — conferences, keynotes, demos etc.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#134

Post by sp332 »

WayneDB wrote: post #132
sp332 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The screen literally just had tits. The whole point of the app was to look at tits. There was nothing else of a woman involved. They really did just take the "tits" part and exclude the rest!

Yeah, great argument. So if you hear a drum, you have no concept of a drummer? No, you're right - men who see just a pair of tits think "that's all I need - nothing attached, just the tits pleaze, tyvm."

I'm not talking about every guy on the planet. But I think it's very clear that whoever made this app thought, "Know what? We should make an app that just has tits. Nothing else, just tits."

More to the point: the women are being used in a way that is completely determined by the user of the app, instead of being given any kind of consideration as people.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#135

Post by WayneDB »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #130
WayneDB wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please prove to me that the majority of women or even a large portion are offended. Nobody has done that yet. Furthermore, even if you could prove that - percentage has nothing to do with it. That is a completely arbitrary qualifier. Offending people is a birth given right. Get over it.

Now you're just trolling. Given the response that occurred in the media and in general, I suggest that you prove the opposite.

> Now you're just trolling.

What the fuck does that even mean?

> Given the response that occurred in the media and in general...

The media is your measuring stick? The same media that regularly objectifies women in your opinion? That's rich. You should probably go think about that some more.

You and all the whiners just like you are the ones complaining about tit jokes, so you prove it.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#136

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

WayneDB wrote: post #131
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But can you agree that these people complaining about tit jokes are not accepting many other people's opinion that tit jokes are funny and that people should be free to joke about them if they wish? Hell no. This is standard derailing junk. It goes "my freedom to be an arsehole and drive people away is just as important as other people's desire to work in an arsehole-free environment." It's childish and inconsidera…

> It's childish and inconsiderate. That's your fucking opinion though. > I leave it to you to work out..blah blah blah. Oh gawd. What a fucking cop-out. Stop replying to me you chicken shit.

I am capable of disagreeing without resorting to abusive and threatening behaviour. While trying to understand what the other person is saying. Skills that you could learn.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#137

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

WayneDB wrote: post #135
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you're just trolling. Given the response that occurred in the media and in general, I suggest that you prove the opposite.

> Now you're just trolling. What the fuck does that even mean? > Given the response that occurred in the media and in general... The media is your measuring stick? The same media that regularly objectifies women in your opinion? That's rich. You should probably go think about that some more. You and all the whiners just like you are the ones complaining about tit jokes, so you prove it.

> The same media that regularly objectifies women in your opinion?

In my opinion? Citation needed.

> You and all the whiners just like you

Sweeping generalisation.

So to be clear, you're saying that there's no fuss being made, and also it's being made by "whiners"?

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#138

Post by liedra »

As a woman in tech, I'd like to thank the men in this thread who obviously get what the problem is here. This sort of stuff can only change with a concerted effort from both men and women to change the culture. And it's small steps like standing up to sexist jerks and calling out people who engage in activities like this that will get us closer to our destination.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#139

Post by WayneDB »

chris_wot wrote: post #90
laichzeit0 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and what will you conclude from that? Some find it offensive, some do not. It's by no means universal and some kind of "necessary truth".

Many do find it offensive. As many find the word "nigger" racist, but some do not doesn't disprove that it is a racist term. So it is here.

A word can't be racist. A word can be used by racists, but the word itself - no.

There is a whole spectrum out there. The word "nigger" is a term of endearment for many.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#140

Post by WayneDB »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #137
WayneDB wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now you're just trolling. What the fuck does that even mean? > Given the response that occurred in the media and in general... The media is your measuring stick? The same media that regularly objectifies women in your opinion? That's rich. You should probably go think about that some more. You and all the whiners just like you are the ones complaining about tit jokes, so you prove it.

> The same media that regularly objectifies women in your opinion? In my opinion? Citation needed. > You and all the whiners just like you Sweeping generalisation. So to be clear, you're saying that there's no fuss being made, and also it's being made by "whiners"?

Does "the media" regularly objectify women or not in your opinion or not?

Why not just tell me the truth instead of asking me to cite you on your own opinion?

(I just can't imagine that you think "the media" is any better than this titstare app. Have you watched TV before?)

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