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'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#91

Post by marvin »

lifebeyondfife wrote: post #23
jnardiello wrote: post #8

Frankly, TitStare was quite funny. In despite of being tits-related, i can't see how a woman could find it offensive (maybe because she has tits too? i can't see the correlation). It's more about lonely developers staring at tits. It's funny to see how the tech industry is passing thru its "feminist" age and just can't understand that THERE ARE differences between men and women, which doesn't mean anyhow that one is…

You need to learn that what is considered (possibly socially) acceptable behaviour amongst your friends, is not necessarily acceptable in the workplace. If you want a definition of the workplace, it includes hacker meetups, youtube videos, presentations etc. where people of all social groups come together to discuss or create code. I have a very twisted sense of humour that many would find offensive. At work though I…

You've made a good utilitarian argument for why the biased gender views in tech should be abolished. I think this will convince some people. But it's worth mentioning that making other people comfortable around you is something that is worth it on its own merits.

Refusing to bother with making other people comfortable unless there is a benefit, which some hacker types tend to do, is really a sociopathic personality trait.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#92

Post by marvin »

sambeau wrote: post #48
cliveowen wrote: post #13

I'm tired of seeing everything linked to sexism in tech. Moreover, sexism isn't a female only problem: try (as a male) to get a job in a kindergartn or a nursery school.

Feminism is about the equality of opportunity and power . You cannot create a picture of equal sexism by demonstrating a low-power, low-economic status, low opportunity-of-career-advancement role (that has traditionally been a female-only occupation due in-part to traditional gender-specific roles around child-rearing) where men who choose to enter it are viewed with scepticism. Especially if that role includes close…

You had me up until "Sexism is a female only problem". This is provably false for any sane definition of sexism. Try being a male nurse or kindergarten teacher, getting an allegation of sexual abuse taken seriously, looking at the statistics of criminal charges vs. convictions by gender etc.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#93

Post by [deleted] »

pstack wrote: post #72
chris_wot wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is about sexism. Tell me that this is not sexist? https://mobile.twitter.com/HateYouCards/status/3767351904348...

Sexism is the assertion that one sex is inferior to the other, usually because of or alongside assertion of stereotypes of that gender. Misogyny is the hatred of women. Neither word really has anything to do with being attracted to the sexuality of the other gender. Neither word really has anything to do with simply being unkind, mean, or insensitive. Unfortunately, we often seem to throw these labels on people (labe…

[deleted]

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#94

Post by WayneDB »

chris_wot wrote: post #83
pstack wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sexism is the assertion that one sex is inferior to the other, usually because of or alongside assertion of stereotypes of that gender. Misogyny is the hatred of women. Neither word really has anything to do with being attracted to the sexuality of the other gender. Neither word really has anything to do with simply being unkind, mean, or insensitive. Unfortunately, we often seem to throw these labels on people (labe…

You do not have a fully defined view of sexism there. One other part of sexism is sexual objectification, which reduces the person or whole gender to an instrument of sexual pleasure, without any view of the person's dignity or humanity.

Nobody was reduced to that though.

What fun would a pair of tits floating in the air be? I'd rather stare at tits that are attached to a whole woman.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#95

Post by WayneDB »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #50
verroq wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it sexist to like tits?

Having a sexuality is not sexist. Sexualising the workplace usually is, as it makes it unfriendly to others. I appreciate that porn (hard, soft or just this smut) is a business too, but is that the business that techcrunch is in?

Entertainment is part of tech and tits as well as tit jokes are damn entertaining.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#96

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

WayneDB wrote: post #95
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a sexuality is not sexist. Sexualising the workplace usually is, as it makes it unfriendly to others. I appreciate that porn (hard, soft or just this smut) is a business too, but is that the business that techcrunch is in?

Entertainment is part of tech and tits as well as tit jokes are damn entertaining.

> tits as well as tit jokes are damn entertaining.

For some only. That's the point.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#97

Post by WayneDB »

chris_wot wrote: post #60
verroq wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it sexist to like tits?

No. I like them quite a bit. But it is sexist to make an app to encourage men to ogle random women's breasts and submit photos while doing so, to an audience of men and women.

It's not sexist to make an app to encourage men to ogle random women's breasts and submit photos while doing so, to an audience of men and women.

Men are doing it anyway and there's nothing wrong with that either.

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#98

Post by partoa »

marvin wrote: post #89
partoa wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does titstare have to do with not valuing women for anything other than their tits? Pardon me for asking.

It's not about intent, it's about perception. Using or building a tit-staring app may or may not imply that the guy in question respects women less for their technical merits, or judges them on looks rather than skills. The problem is that as a technical woman in the audience, you will be very likely to perceive such an initiative as something that detracts from your personal values (professional merit, technical ski…

Put that way, it may make sense...My problem is that almost everyone is reacting as if the intention of that presentation was to demean or objectify women rather than make light of the fact that men do stare at tits. Still, I'd go for both men and women understanding each other over political correctness. Reason, this will eventually lead to men only events http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=5811.

I wouldn't go for making men uncomfortable around women any more than making women uncomfortable around men. The solution, I believe, lies somewhere in between men appreciating that some things are rude in certain contexts and women appreciating that men may make certain jokes without any ill intent. Also, in my experience, in offices that are balanced, gender wise, such jokes are not uncommon; it's a thing people do.

I just think that such arguments simply trivialise misogyny which actually exists http://www.policymic.com/articles/30922/adria-richards-why-a....

Re: 'Titstare' app at TechCrunch: women in tech deserve better

#99

Post by chris_wot »

WayneDB wrote: post #94
chris_wot wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not have a fully defined view of sexism there. One other part of sexism is sexual objectification, which reduces the person or whole gender to an instrument of sexual pleasure, without any view of the person's dignity or humanity.

Nobody was reduced to that though. What fun would a pair of tits floating in the air be? I'd rather stare at tits that are attached to a whole woman.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
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