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An Apology From TechCrunch

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Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#131

Post by ScottBurson »

educating wrote: post #83
ScottBurson wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another one: that this kind of thing might be crude and distasteful, but it isn't specifically sexist. The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring.

> The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring. I'd go so far as to say that how is an app that is all about exploiting women NOT sexist? It is more than just making them uncomfortable. Some pics are taken of women that are drug addicted or white slaves or both. For most that do it on their own initiative, it is a decision they will re…

Just to be clear -- all I'm saying is that the argument (that these things aren't sexist) is being made -- as you can see if you read through the rest of the discussion.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#132

Post by jessedhillon »

rfnslyr wrote: post #122
jessedhillon wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree dude. That's my stand when I drop racial slurs ("slurs" am I right?) It's not my job to know which words are going to upset another person's emotional state! I'm not a mind reader! My responsibility is only to say what I want. Seriously though -- it's absolutely-fucking-hilarious that you think I'm the one lacking situational awareness. The guys who got up and made boob jokes? Total awareness, perhaps e…

Get to the point and state exactly why you got offended.

I never said I was offended, and that doesn't matter. You said that people should not be offended, and the only reasoning you offered for this was that you thought it was funny. My point is that your singular perspective of the humor is not alone sufficient in determining whether or not it's appropriate for the audience, or whether other people are appropriately offended.

You appear to be saying that simply because you are not offended, nobody else should be -- which is an incredibly stupid position to hold. I don't care to explain to you why breast obsession apps and mock-stroking in front of and all over an audience are offensive to others. I doubt you would get it anyway.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#133

Post by educating »

ScottBurson wrote: post #131
educating wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring. I'd go so far as to say that how is an app that is all about exploiting women NOT sexist? It is more than just making them uncomfortable. Some pics are taken of women that are drug addicted or white slaves or both. For most that do it on their own initiative, it is a decision they will re…

Just to be clear -- all I'm saying is that the argument (that these things aren't sexist) is being made -- as you can see if you read through the rest of the discussion.

Clarified my comment. Sorry- not trying to get you into trouble.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#134

Post by [deleted] »

metaphorm wrote: post #129
jessedhillon wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central to your comment is that you are comparing my post to a Hitler/holocaust argument. Ironically then, you have invoked Godwin's Law.

no, I'm saying you are the sort of person who thoroughly enjoys self-righteousness and making baseless accusations about (your perception of) the beliefs of others.

[deleted]

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#135

Post by gojomo »

educating wrote: post #83
ScottBurson wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another one: that this kind of thing might be crude and distasteful, but it isn't specifically sexist. The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring.

> The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring. I'd go so far as to say that how is an app that is all about exploiting women NOT sexist? It is more than just making them uncomfortable. Some pics are taken of women that are drug addicted or white slaves or both. For most that do it on their own initiative, it is a decision they will re…

Personally I thought the demo was meta-commentary about absurd photo-sharing apps, community standards, and the combined awkwardness/humor of "men caught looking" (and then we, the audience or hypothetical users of the app, "caught looking at men looking"). Regressive, yes, but also recursive.

The chosen example photos seemed to have as their subject the male gaze, not the breasts themselves. And, unless staged, such photos don't usually capture a "stare" but a "furtive glance": it is an artifact of the photo-taking (and then sharing) process that turns a momentary glance, that the subject might have hoped noone would notice, into a permanent, ranked "stare".

The audience laughter was as much or more uncomfortable-distancing as it was enjoyment/approval, and the cultural differences in gender-sensitivity-taboos between Australia and Northern California added another interesting dimension to their act.

I would consider it one of the more interesting performances in the SF Fringe Festival (http://www.sffringe.org/appl/), now through September 21st on stages across San Francisco, and all the more notable because it was not, technically, an SF Fringe Festival entry or venue.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#136

Post by Karunamon »

polemic wrote: post #107
farmerjack wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The examples in that blog post are discriminatory, and if I were her, I'd be very pissed off. However, the coworkers' comments were directed at her specifically. In this case, it's some men saying they like to stare at boobs. It's not saying women are bad programmers, and it certainly doesn't seem like they're trying to say "men are better than women." If anything, it's saying, "We're dumb males. We like to look at b…

The point of the post was not to try to give you examples of discriminatory behaviour (and if you think that's the point of the blog post, you've missed the point entirely). When we, as an industry, create an atmosphere that degrades members of our community, it's not adequate to say "lighten up, it's just a joke, get over it". You seem bothered about who is getting outraged. In my case, I'm a programmer who talks to…

I've seen that "lighten up" article posted no less than 4 times in this comment thread, except the unasked elephant in the room appears to be this:

At what point precisely does someone's, or a group of someone's comfort factor with a given topic begin to influence whether that topic should be discussed, parodied, subverted, etc?

On the left side of that point is where "lighten up" is an acceptable response to someone who is indeed being oversensitive or prudish.

This has to be an acceptable response somewhere along this continuum, because the alternative is to censor every single bit of humor ever, because I'm pretty sure I could dig up some person somewhere who is offended by a "why did the chicken cross the road" joke, let alone a reference to sex in any way.

On the right side of that point is obvious, where something is clearly and obviously inappropriate and probably damaging. Racial slurs, overtly sexist remarks, etc.

So. Where do we draw the line? The fact that this comment thread even exists would tell me that we don't have that nailed down.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#138

Post by angersock »

theorique wrote: post #96
mhurron wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> app called TitStare, which allows you to view, upload, and share softcore photos of.. use your imagination I don't see the problem. Pornography is perfectly legal and big business.

Well, yeah, but at TechCrunch Disrupt? There's a time and a place for this kind of thing and it's not at a generalist startups and software industry conference.

The event is keep us abreast of the new products, as it were.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#139

Post by rfnslyr »

jessedhillon wrote: post #128
rfnslyr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prank wasn't brought to light with the intention of offending women. It's a play on an activity with men, we look at boobs. Not everything involving sex is made with the objective of targeting someone, it's just a joke. If you fail to see it as such, that's your problem.

Right on. I have some white friends who, when there aren't any black people around, call each other the n-word. They're not targeting any particular black person, so obviously the behavior is completely acceptable. It's a joke, you know, a play on actual racist behavior. If you fail to see it as such, that's your problem. The good thing about this position is that you lack such self-awareness that you would never kno…

Hahaha wow whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better.
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