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An Apology From TechCrunch

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Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#81

Post by subsystem »

andrewljohnson wrote: post #38

When I first saw the TitStare thing, I thought it was a Google Glass hack to let you stare at boobs without actually looking at them directly. While still a really sexist thing, I thought such an app would be an interesting hack, and make quite a statement about the future of these wearable technologies... might be considered an art project if cast in the right light (and also probably renamed). But a boob-photo shar…

If something is actually good it rarely has to hide behind something like sexism. It's not like you read xkcd and think "I wish it had more dick jokes".

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#82

Post by graue »

zainny wrote: post #64

I wonder if the biggest reason why things like this keep happening is because we're all on a state of "high alert" in the tech community. Hear me out. Right now in the tech world we've got ourselves in a big damn tizzy over anything even slightly sexual in nature. By contrast, almost every single other medium we encounter on a day to day basis (TV, movies, magazines) is HIGHLY sexualised and makes absolutely no apolo…

First of all, not everything that's ok in an entertainment medium (TV, movies) is ok in a professional setting. I don't think presentations like these would have been appropriate at a conference of lawyers, doctors, artists, or biologists, either.

That said I think this also has to do with the extreme gender imbalance. Tech conferences are very male-dominated. I think the first photo here really gets this across, of the restroom line at another conference in SF:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/06/ridicu...

Imagine that you're a woman and you're walking to the restroom, past a line of 40 or 50 men. And now, imagine they've all just seen a "joke" presentation about staring at women's breasts. You might feel like a bit of a target, don't you think? It could be pretty uncomfortable.

Whereas, if we had a gender-balanced industry, and if we had, say, 47 men in the men's restroom line and 43 women in the women's restroom line, a presentation like the ones we're discussing would still be offensive and inappropriate, and still really not ok, but it might at least feel less personally threatening.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#83

Post by educating »

ScottBurson wrote: post #69
jessedhillon wrote: post #52

I'd like to stem a couple of obvious, but inevitable (for HN and some other tech communities) criticisms that are bound to appear: 1) Yes, this stuff is tasteless and offends the sensibilities of most decent adults. (Invariably, someone likes to point out that it offends everyone, and conclude therefore that it can't be misogynistic) 2) Yes, people differ in their tolerances for crudeness in their humor. First, I thi…

There's another one: that this kind of thing might be crude and distasteful, but it isn't specifically sexist. The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring.

> The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring.

I'd go so far as to say that how is an app that is all about exploiting women NOT sexist?

It is more than just making them uncomfortable. Some pics are taken of women that are drug addicted or white slaves or both. For most that do it on their own initiative, it is a decision they will regret later, but unlike a one night stand, it isn't just for one night. Those images stay around forever.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#84

Post by steveklabnik »

yogo wrote: post #12
WestCoastJustin wrote: post #9

Anyone coming here, wondering what happened, there were two presentation which were clearly inappropriate. First one was an app called TitStare , which allows you to view, upload, and share softcore photos of.. use your imagination. The second, circle shake , was an app to measure how fast you can jerk your wrist, upload and share your scores, accompanied by a pretty wild presentation. I think the first one must have…

Thanks for the details. I've never read an article I learned nothing from like that one. Sexism aside, these two presentations are too funny for me not to think they were done intentionally.

Whoops, how did I end up on this stage? I've never even seen this presentation before! Must have been an accident!

(of _course_ they were done intentionally.)

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#85

Post by Systemic33 »

Making this to more than a kinda childish joke is more of a problem than the act itself. By elevating this to a "Look how troubled our industry is" kinda thing, its just gonna get more of an issue.

The only way this will change is if it doesn't become the naughty thing it is right now. And this seems to be quite a US-centric issue, stemming from the paradoxical opinion about women in US.

Anywhere else, this would just have been a funny joke, and everyone would have laughed and thought the people were silly and unproffesional.

Anyone who gets offended by this, has more severe issues than the guys who did this.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#86

Post by e40 »

jessedhillon wrote: post #37
rfnslyr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I really think everyone should collectively loosen up.

Hear hear. For example, I always drop the n-word when I'm walking around. People should be more like me, I don't get offended by that kind of language, why should anyone else? Sometimes people do, and I'm like, "What? Why're you getting so offended? I'm not offended, why are you?" I'm kidding. I don't ask "why are you?" -- that doesn't matter LOL 8-) For some reason, black people get especially offended at this kind…

Your reply would be entire spot on if the word "tit" and the n-word were equivalent. One is a body part that both men and women share. The other is a racially charged word that has more than a century of really bad history behind it. And, see how both you and I couldn't say the n-word? That's a tip off that it's not the same. I have tits. Yes, they are man-tits but they are tits nonetheless. The n-word, however, isn't something I'll be caught saying except in very specific company (explaining the history to my 12 yr old, for example).

I can't say I agree with the GP post, since I didn't see the presentations being discussed, but I know your comment is off base.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#87

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

farmerjack wrote: post #36
USNetizen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had to create a new HN identity to post that? Afraid of something? Hacker culture is no longer a good-ol-boy's club for good reasons. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel very included in a culture that denigrated me like certain hacker events of late do to women.

I didn't have an HN identity. I felt like this might be an interesting discussion, so I created an account. Is it a big secret that men like to look at boobs? I'd like to meet the women who were so offended by such an obvious joke. In the entire circle of women I know, I really can't think of one who wouldn't recognize the playfulness of the idea (and not take it seriously). If a female made an app that included men'…

"If a female made an app that included men's butts, would people have the same reaction?"

All things being equal, yes. However, men don't have women catcalling at them in the street, don't have to put up with women ogling them in public, get away with more pay for doing exactly the same work, are more likely to rise to positions of power, are favoured by many systems of monarchy, don't have to put up with other people acting as if they own their bodies and have a right to tell them what to do with them, etc, etc, et-bloody-cetera. I like the way that you think only women can possibly be offended by this kind of behaviour. - a man

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#88

Post by farmerjack »

polemic wrote: post #59
farmerjack wrote: post #16

Are people actually outraged? Since when did hacker culture take such a large turn toward political correctness?

Yes, people are actually outraged. Because it's outrageous. This isn't "political correctness", this is "how not to shit on the fellow members of our profession". Telling people to Lighten Up[1] is not an adequate excuse for shitty behaviour. 1. http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/

The examples in that blog post are discriminatory, and if I were her, I'd be very pissed off. However, the coworkers' comments were directed at her specifically.

In this case, it's some men saying they like to stare at boobs. It's not saying women are bad programmers, and it certainly doesn't seem like they're trying to say "men are better than women." If anything, it's saying, "We're dumb males. We like to look at boobs. We made a stupid app to look at more boobs."

What bothers me is that, as I read some of these comments, I don't see outraged women but rather a bunch of white knights. This is not a big deal; in this particular case, "lighten up."

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#89

Post by rhizome »

rfnslyr wrote: post #75
jessedhillon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear hear. For example, I always drop the n-word when I'm walking around. People should be more like me, I don't get offended by that kind of language, why should anyone else? Sometimes people do, and I'm like, "What? Why're you getting so offended? I'm not offended, why are you?" I'm kidding. I don't ask "why are you?" -- that doesn't matter LOL 8-) For some reason, black people get especially offended at this kind…

Yes because tit is exactly like saying "nigger".

Well, aren't we edgy.

Re: An Apology From TechCrunch

#90

Post by graue »

educating wrote: post #83
ScottBurson wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another one: that this kind of thing might be crude and distasteful, but it isn't specifically sexist. The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring.

> The sexism is in knowing that it will make most women somewhat uncomfortable, and some women very uncomfortable, and not caring. I'd go so far as to say that how is an app that is all about exploiting women NOT sexist? It is more than just making them uncomfortable. Some pics are taken of women that are drug addicted or white slaves or both. For most that do it on their own initiative, it is a decision they will re…

I think you may have misread ScottBurson's post. I interpreted as, "Some people might claim it's not sexist. But it is, because..."
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