Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated • Hacker News Board

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#131

Post by venomsnake » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 1:38 PM UTC

up_and_up wrote: post #97

venomsnake wrote: post #23

I saw a kid with polio deformed legs a few months ago. Something that I have never seen while the immunization calendar was state mandated and I was young. I have also never seen a case of autism. In a few years we will have outbreak of something preventable. I just feel poor for all the kids that had real reasons not to get the shots. A friend of mine after very bad Hodgkin was with compromised immune system for 10…

> I have also never seen a case of autism. Not sure where you live. There are two kids with autism on my block. Both young boys. Autism is a common disease where I live in the midwest. We have 3 large organizations that only work with Autistic kids. My wife and I have 3 kids and vaccinate them selectively on our own schedule. We vaccinate our kids for the same things that we received as children, nothing more and not…

I meant that there weren't kids in my surrounding (consisting of a couple of thousand kids) with the kind of mental problems(symptoms) while growing up and having very strict immunization schedule.

Of course in the 80s in Eastern Europe some things were just considered being a kid that I suppose will give you today some diagnosis.

Was chicken pox or mumps the one that boils your testicles if you get is as an adult?

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#132

Post by aestra » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 1:40 PM UTC

dhughes wrote: post #125

jmadsen wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad thing is, one of the worst pandemics in human history is fairly recent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic There are (a few) people alive today who remember it. It killed between 1.5 and 3 times as many people as the earlier WWI - but isn't as sexy as war, so hardly anyone studies it (relatively speaking)

Killing about 5% of the entire population of the world about 100 million people, just imagine now with seven billion if a flu outbreak killed 350 million people. Even people on remote islands in the middle of oceans died from the flu.

That's amazing, that's more than the population of the United States.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#133

Post by functional_test » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 1:45 PM UTC

up_and_up wrote: post #97

venomsnake wrote: post #23

I saw a kid with polio deformed legs a few months ago. Something that I have never seen while the immunization calendar was state mandated and I was young. I have also never seen a case of autism. In a few years we will have outbreak of something preventable. I just feel poor for all the kids that had real reasons not to get the shots. A friend of mine after very bad Hodgkin was with compromised immune system for 10…

> I have also never seen a case of autism. Not sure where you live. There are two kids with autism on my block. Both young boys. Autism is a common disease where I live in the midwest. We have 3 large organizations that only work with Autistic kids. My wife and I have 3 kids and vaccinate them selectively on our own schedule. We vaccinate our kids for the same things that we received as children, nothing more and not…

Honestly, how many times does the link between vaccines and autism have to be disproven before people get it?

On the other hand, there is a direct link between not being vaccinated and getting sick. Probably why they want to vaccinate against everything. Even chicken pox can cause more severe disease like shingles [1].

You wouldn't want your kids riding in a car with only the safety features that existed when you were a child. Why would you do the same for their health?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_zoster

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#134

Post by jlgreco » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 1:45 PM UTC

jmadsen wrote: post #101

jared314 wrote: post #4

> Most people have not lived in a time of plagues or remember their effects. Most people do not read history or look at the morbidity and mortality of vaccine-preventable illnesses in the third world. This is another great example of why people need to be taught actual history, not the version censored "for their young minds". The people who change curricula and edit textbooks to remove the unpleasant memories, or fo…

The sad thing is, one of the worst pandemics in human history is fairly recent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic There are (a few) people alive today who remember it. It killed between 1.5 and 3 times as many people as the earlier WWI - but isn't as sexy as war, so hardly anyone studies it (relatively speaking)

Hell, it killed around as many people as WWII, including the Holocaust (wikipedia estimates for WWII being >60million, and estimates for the Spanish flu being 50-100million.)

Numbers that big become very difficult to actually fathom in a meaningful way.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#135

Post by raphinou » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 1:45 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #123

raphinou wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the facts lead me to a moderate position. I let you feel confortable following the cdc, i prefer to keep a critical mind, though i agree it is hard for non experts like us to get good and objective information.

>Looking at the facts lead me to a moderate position. Mention them, rather than "moderation", and people may not downvote you.

I listed an example about the rotavirus in my subsequent comments, but here's another one mentioned by Patrick_devine in the comments: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/09...

This illustrates that the precautionary principle[1] might sometimes be forgotten or be put on the background.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#136

Post by jlgreco » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 1:48 PM UTC

pkennedy wrote: post #130

Steuard wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US, my impression is that vaccination refusal is more common among left-wing anti-corporate types than among fundamentalist Christians. It thrives any time there are non-rational beliefs, but it doesn't seem to be too picky about which kind.

One of the current big US measles outbreaks is church-related: http://www.npr.org/2013/09/01/217746942/texas-megachurch-at-... My anecdotal experience among anti-vaccination people I've known is that they're only weakly correlated with religion or politics--leaning slightly left but still all over the map.

It is a conspiracy thing. Left or right wing conspiracy-minded people adopt it. Some people replace vaccines with "faith healing", others replace it with new-age shit.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#137

Post by jlgreco » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 1:52 PM UTC

joshuahedlund wrote: post #102

nl wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would God protect from the measles but not the autism? That's a wonderful line.

Well, when your mind is made up you can explain anything - perhaps the autism is a punishment for not trusting in the original protection, etc, etc

Indeed. If you want talk to them with their terms, you might have better luck with "God helps those who help themselves", though I doubt that will work in practice either.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#138

Post by raphinou » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 2:03 PM UTC

dalke wrote: post #126

raphinou wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you think I'm discussing US policy... It seems we don't understand each other and ending our discussion is indeed the best option.

I never said you were talking directly about US policy. I both times used the word "implication." You say there are two camps. I point out that the majority view, which includes the views of the CDC and WHO, and described in their publications, is in neither of those camps that you proposed. Specifically, you say "Sadly both camps (pro and anti vaccines) have too extreme positions to have a constructive debate." The…

Now I understand your reasoning. Stating there are two camps with no one in-between was maybe indeed too... extreme. I meant to say that there are a lot of people with strong opinions, and few with a balanced view acknowledging there are both risks and benefits.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#139

Post by pkennedy » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #136

pkennedy wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the current big US measles outbreaks is church-related: http://www.npr.org/2013/09/01/217746942/texas-megachurch-at-... My anecdotal experience among anti-vaccination people I've known is that they're only weakly correlated with religion or politics--leaning slightly left but still all over the map.

It is a conspiracy thing. Left or right wing conspiracy-minded people adopt it. Some people replace vaccines with "faith healing", others replace it with new-age shit.

That makes sense. All of the above run strong in the rather new-agey community I grew up in.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#140

Post by aestra » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

tsotha wrote: post #41

tjogin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that bird/pig flu wouldn't have had more severe impact if it wasn't for the vaccinations?

Last year the flu vaccine was only about 35% effective in my area and the world didn't end. In a normal year you're in no danger from the flu unless your pulmonary or immune systems are compromised. Of course that's not true every year.

I had a family friend die of the common flu. He was in his early 50's and otherwise completely healthy. Just got the flu and died. It was so sad...

We also know that healthy children and teens without any known risk factors die from the flu

Austin’s case is not unusual, according to a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study released Thursday. In fact, 43 percent American children who died from flu were perfectly healthy beforehand, CDC researchers found. While conditions such as cerebral palsy and asthma can make flu especially dangerous for a child, there’s no way to tell which children will become seriously ill or even die from seasonal flu, the researchers warn.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/49465633/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/...