Rambling On [PHP] Internals • Hacker News Board

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#101

Post by thejosh » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 5:01 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #94

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP. My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that. 2 questions. - Am I wastin…

depends if you want to do it for a job, and what the local interest is in your choice of language.

I learned PHP in 2003, and haven't regretted it since. There are quite a few PHP jobs here, and I like the culture that this language brings - unlike ASP.NET which is very corporate.

So yeah, use what makes you happy, PHP is a great start into a lot of other languages as it isn't as intense as others.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#102

Post by wpietri » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 5:14 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #94

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP. My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that. 2 questions. - Am I wastin…

Whether or not you stick with PHP, you should learn some other languages. At the very least, it will make you a much better PHP programmer. But maybe you'll find something you like better.

Ruby, Python, and Node are all reasonable next things to try. Large communities, lots of resources, and plenty of example code to look at.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#103

Post by theolll » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 5:14 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #94

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP. My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that. 2 questions. - Am I wastin…

I second node.js as a learning tool, learning the one syntax will let you get a feel for both areas of web development.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#104

Post by anuraj » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 5:15 AM UTC

PHP will be useful if the bloat is eliminated. Just plain procedural scripting, simple, straight - Nothing else is needed. By the way, that is my view of any scripting language. Languages used to write complex systems should be type safe and strictly structured.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#105

Post by wpietri » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 5:19 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #98

byroot wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK it's not true. First they don't use raw php: https://github.com/facebook/xhp/wiki Then they use it only for the view layer, it only pull some data from memcache to render HTML. But all the hard work is C++ / Java / Tornado / etc

Correct me if I am wrong, but very few large scale project (if any at all) use raw PHP. Most of them rely on some kind of framework. Besides FB said it themselves that large portion of their code is PHP.

Well, that would presumably mean that the bulk of their code is view code. Which, by line count, probably makes sense.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#106

Post by hadem » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 5:23 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #94

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP. My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that. 2 questions. - Am I wastin…

No, you are not wasting your time. You will read people complain about PHP but in the end, it provides me with a great job that pays the bills and then some! When used properly, it doesn't have to be a bad language and can be fun. That, and if you are just starting to get into web development, it is a great place to start. You can always branch out into other web technologies down the road. Have fun and keep learning :-)

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#107

Post by sanderjd » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 5:31 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #94

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP. My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that. 2 questions. - Am I wastin…

You definitely aren't wasting your time, but it would be great for you to also learn Python well enough to understand peoples' negativity toward PHP, even (especially?) if you decide you disagree with them.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#108

Post by wvenable » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 5:42 AM UTC

Supermighty wrote: post #77

wvenable wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the mailing list is open to anyone and the majority of people on the list should be providing input.

There are moderated lists. When someone gets out of hand give them a temporary ban, and tell everyone why there were banned. People will learn that if they want to participate they will have to behave. After time, when the community scares away the trolls, they can loosen the moderation rules. There are plenty of communities that self moderate after having a strong leader show them what was socially acceptable and wh…

It's not necessarily about misbehaving. You can "behave" and yet still derail a discussion or provide no useful input. I'd say there wasn't terrible uncivil about the internals list.

But it's less like a technical discussion list and more like an open forum. The signal to noise ratio is pretty low.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#109

Post by ing33k » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 6:06 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #94

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP. My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that. 2 questions. - Am I wastin…

- Don't even think that you are wasting your time ! - Ruby/Rails , Python/Django , Node.js

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#110

Post by paulhauggis » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 7:04 AM UTC

camus wrote: post #85

bayesianhorse wrote: post #7

Writing in PHP is a war against the platform - that's why PHP code tends to look like a battlefield...

That's why i'm impressed with Symfony and Doctrine. Taking one of the worst language out there , and creating these well crafter libraries , that's insane. I think type hinting and basic POO saved PHP.

Symfony..maybe..but Doctrine?

Do we really need a sudo-sql language for creating object->db table relational mappings?

I used Doctrine extensively at my last job..and I will not be using it for any personal projects. It's bloated and when I need to optimize a sql query, I have to essentially create a hack outside of the main ORM..which kinda defeats the purpose in the first place.

I much prefer Zend or Codeigniter.