Rambling On [PHP] Internals • Hacker News Board

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#91

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 3:44 AM UTC

Miyamoto wrote: post #71

HN white knights JavaScript but hates PHP. I can't figure it out. Each language is horrible in similar ways.

Not really. JS has some design flaws, but if you look past them it is a really solid language. On the other hand, PHP started with design flaws, then accumulated different design flaws from all paradigms, so it is now a frankenstein of design flaws.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#92

Post by mwfunk » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 3:46 AM UTC

MrZongle2 wrote: post #59

citricsquid wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ircmaxwell has contributed a hell of a lot to PHP recently, this is not some worthless shmuck complaining, this is someone that can and does provide significant value to the community.

Who said he was a "worthless schmuck"? Geniuses can have temper-tantrums, too. Just because he has made worthy contributions doesn't mean that he isn't acting like a drama queen.

You referred to his post as a temper tantrum (subtext: he's being childish), refer to him as someone who just wants more "toys" (subtext: also childish), and just had to point out that his points about PHP were obvious (subtext: nothing interesting to say). Then you suggested that he might be a drama queen (subtext: too numerous to list here). That may not reflect your feelings, but that is what you communicated, whether you meant to or not. It's the nature of electronic communication- it's very easy to misinterpret. Maybe you talk like this in real life and being somewhat hyperbolic in your choice of words is a humorous verbal quirk, but none of that comes across electronically.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#93

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:07 AM UTC

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #48

The author is complaining about lack of vision, leadership and regulations. And most of us can perfectly understand that, except: those are exactly the things that set PHP apart from most other major open source projects. It is by far the most anarchic and disorganized major OSS project and yet it still thrives . It still moves forward, it still gets better. Yes, it's design foundations as a language are not particul…

Killing PHP dead would be as hard as killing IE6 was.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#94

Post by pavs » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:22 AM UTC

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP.

My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that.

2 questions.

- Am I wasting my time with PHP?

- What are some good alternative for web-development that preferably doesn't have a steep learning curve?

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#95

Post by circuiter » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:23 AM UTC

gesman wrote: post #14

PHP is addictive. You can create whole web app in one PHP file from scratch and it will have everything including API and DB management layer and be secure and fully functioning. And it will work on all servers and on all operating systems. Millions are made by average developers developing themes and plugins for wordpress. Hard to beat all that. #drama is for queens :)

Indeed. I've found PHP simply allows me to get things done and consequentially it put a lot of food on my table.

There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses - Bjarne Stroustrup

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#96

Post by circuiter » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:25 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #94

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP. My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that. 2 questions. - Am I wastin…

No, you're not wasting your time.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#97

Post by jdjb » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:25 AM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #41

shabble wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I'm forced to use a forum for something, I wish usenet hadn't succumbed to spam & binary warez. Many of the clients from 20 years ago have more (useful) features than modern forums. It's probably about time to reinvent it again, tunneled over Websockets with a Flat Responsive html5 Retina-Aware Interhyperface or something.

I've always wanted to see a nested-discussion system with upvotes/downvotes that does the kind of seamless no-F5 updating you see on facebook.

Wouldn't that mean that as you're reading a comment it could suddenly start moving up or down the screen? That'd make it pretty hard to read the stuff tailored for shills/fanboys/antifanboys...oh you may be onto something..

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#98

Post by pavs » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:27 AM UTC

byroot wrote: post #19

dubcanada wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is entirely written in PHP. It uses all sorts of databases and other systems to handle stuff, but so does every other website. It's still written in PHP. Facebook has their own PHP fork, which they use/and modify. I do not believe that Facebook pushes their modifications to PHP as a whole.

AFAIK it's not true. First they don't use raw php: https://github.com/facebook/xhp/wiki Then they use it only for the view layer, it only pull some data from memcache to render HTML. But all the hard work is C++ / Java / Tornado / etc

Correct me if I am wrong, but very few large scale project (if any at all) use raw PHP. Most of them rely on some kind of framework. Besides FB said it themselves that large portion of their code is PHP.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#99

Post by jaequery » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:36 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #94

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP. My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that. 2 questions. - Am I wastin…

use what you love. don't listen to what anyone else says.

Re: Rambling On [PHP] Internals

#100

Post by babby » Sat, Sep 07, 2013, 4:45 AM UTC

pavs wrote: post #94

I recently started learning PHP as my first programming language and I love it so far. But the amount of negativity and hatred I see towards PHP on the internet (even among so-called PHP lovers) makes me question my decision of learning PHP. My main purpose for learning PHP is for web-development. I have looked into java code and I felt like I am going to shit pants if I have to learn that. 2 questions. - Am I wastin…

- nodejs: Write in coffeescript or javascript on the server, two bird with one stone philosophy. Will let you build better programming techniques in respect to structure due to (1) it's async and (2) it's module based. Unlike php the global namespace should not be used. Additionally, JS is just better than PHP in every way I can think of. Node has a thriving user module community. Cons are that you have to deal with async, module dependencies and setting node up on a server (or really anything besides PHP) is far more complex.

- GO: google's lang, seems to be trending lately. Lets you build potentially more elegant, higher performance web apps (if you believe the benchmarks) than node but will have a higher learning curve, less of a userbase.

- Python: Someone else will have to comment on python (and probably GO). Afaik it's a useful language to use overall.