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AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

arstechnica.com

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Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#61

Post by tsotha »

It doesn't surprise me the government would be able to find people swapping out phones on a regular basis using this data.

I once worked in the fraud department of a major US mobile carrier. At that time analog was on its last legs, and the new money-making opportunity was bog-standard identity theft. People would sign up for new phones using stolen information and then rent out minutes to immigrants from the back of a van until we found them out and shut down the phone. We had a system that "fingerprinted" usage patterns such that we knew with a fair degree of certainty when a new account was fraudulent based on his usage patters and the people he called.

I don't see any reason why the same technology wouldn't work to identify criminals with boxes full of prepaid phones.

Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#62

Post by MichaelGG »

lutusp wrote: post #50
MichaelGG wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying every low-end phone has GPS active, then gets and transmits a fix for every phone call?

No, it doesn't work that way -- it's actually rather ingenious. It turns out that a cell phone system can determine a phone's position with reasonable accuracy by comparing its arrival times at different cell towers. With two towers receiving a cell phone's signal, the phone can be located along a line. With three towers, it can be located as a point. It's all to do with the cell signal's arrival time, and it's sort…

Sure, and for 911 that's one thing. But the poster said GPS is saved in the CDRs, which is something I had not heard of. Otherwise it'd be best-of triangulation if needed. And I was under the impression that was only done for Phase 2 Wireless 911 calls. (And with far less accuracy than GPS.)

Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#63

Post by tsotha »

genwin wrote: post #31
moens wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and for there to be a war on drugs in the first place. Eliminate the fundamentals, and there should be no issues at all, really.

I have a problem with a war on marijuana, or violating the Constitution during the war on drugs. But otherwise I don't have a problem with a war on meth or crack or other drugs that increase the odds that I'll be a victim of violent crime or robbery. (I'd punish simple users with rehab rather than prison.)

>But otherwise I don't have a problem with a war on meth or crack or other drugs that increase the odds that I'll be a victim of violent crime or robbery.

Why do you assume this? Do you think people so inclined have any trouble getting "meth or crack or other drugs"? Prohibition only raises the price, and I could make the argument that just means addicts have to rob people more often before they start having medical problems.

Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#64

Post by CamperBob2 »

genwin wrote: post #39
pstuart wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, no. Making them illegal makes more violent crime. Let me put you in rehab for your coffee addiction or beer habit, ok?

Coffee addictions don't lead to more violent crime or robbery, as far as I know. Does making meth and crack legal make less crime (violent or robbery) than if their usage was nil? I highly doubt it.

The same questions were once asked about alcohol. Did you get your answers then?

Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#65

Post by aroman »

mpyne wrote: post #47
aroman wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how exactly do we stop the terrorists from harming us, then? Send them a C&D?

No dude, all we have to do is be nice to everybody, increase our foreign aid even further, and establish Shariah law within the U.S. Oh, and somehow ignore the First Amendment and ban American citizens from insulting certainly notable religious figures. Then they will surely leave us alone.

I'm not sure why my answer merited either a down vote or a sarcastic response, but I regardless, you can work to minimize terrorism without destroying our rights and liberties. I'm not sure where you're drawing the false dichotomy from.

Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#66

Post by jlgreco »

whyleyc wrote: post #40
PavlovsCat wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because caffeine is legal and therefore dirt cheap.

No, it's because as a stimulant it has a combination of relatively low addictive properties and is easy to withdraw from when compared to more "hardcore" substances [1] [1] http://www.drugsense.org/tfy/addictvn.htm

All of those things, except "stimulant" technically, can be said of pot too. Hell, caffeine is physically addictive (not to even get into the lifestyles you can build around it that lead to less 'medical' forms of addiction...) while pot is not.

You ever caffeine withdrawal? Yeah, during that week-long vacation last year when you stopped going to Starbucks every morning. Most of us have gone through that; it is a bitch and lasts longer than most hangovers.

You ever get pot withdrawal? Yeah, me neither.

Whatever, lets say for the sake of argument that pot and caffeine are on par with each other despite the obvious discrepancies. It is undeniable that pot prohibition is harmful to society; why would caffeine prohibition not be?

Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#67

Post by corncobpipe »

devx wrote: post #10
moens wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and for there to be a war on drugs in the first place. Eliminate the fundamentals, and there should be no issues at all, really.

Then there would be a war on piracy. How would you like it if they kept 20 years of your downloading habits? Do you think that in 20 years time they could find something to incriminate you? And that's why it's so wrong to keep data for so long, and actually be able to use it.

I think that's going to be right around the corner.

Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#68

Post by asn0 »

DEAT&T would have dominated the FTC RoboCall Challenge http://robocall.challenge.gov/ if they would have entered. $50K to boot.

When a phone spammer uses fake Caller IDs, the FTC would subpoena the records through DEAT&T to find out the real caller, then $fine$ them into oblivion.

Actually, AT&T should offer a service "WhoReallyJustCalledMe" so I can track down and sue the spammers myself. I'd even pay a % of my winnings.

Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#69

Post by baddox »

genwin wrote: post #39
pstuart wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, no. Making them illegal makes more violent crime. Let me put you in rehab for your coffee addiction or beer habit, ok?

Coffee addictions don't lead to more violent crime or robbery, as far as I know. Does making meth and crack legal make less crime (violent or robbery) than if their usage was nil? I highly doubt it.

I really can't imagine violence going up if drug prohibition was ended, even if you don't count the violence committed by public officers enforcing drug laws.

Re: AT&T gives DEA 26 years of phone call records to wage war on drugs

#70

Post by ahoy »

genwin wrote: post #41
PavlovsCat wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because caffeine is legal and therefore dirt cheap.

If crack was dirt cheap, people would still rob to get the money for it, because they couldn't hold down a decent job while using it.

People hold down professional, successful, white-collar careers for YEARS while doing cocaine. If it was legal why would anyone do crack?
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