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The Deal That Makes No Sense

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Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#71

Post by objclxt »

Yuioup wrote: post #25

No way they weren't forced. This was planned all along. (Disclaimer: I didn't read the article. I just disagree with the headline).

To be honest, I doubt it was how Microsoft planned it turning out. It certainly wasn't Plan A.

Microsoft had already made a significant cash injection into Nokia. Plan A would have been for the Lumia handsets to be a massive success, and for Windows Phone to gain significant traction.

Although you could argue there has been some progress towards this, it hasn't been fast enough for either Microsoft or Nokia. Nokia's current strategy with Windows Phone simply isn't working. They're at a point where they either a) change the business plan, or b) find another source of cash to pay the bills.

Since 'changing the business plan' in this case would have been hugely detrimental to Microsoft the acquisition was inevitable, but far from ideal for both parties.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#72

Post by sampo »

7952 wrote: post #24
polemic wrote: post #11

> "...I think Microsoft ought to abandon Windows Phone. The war is over, and iOS and Android won." That's remarkably short-sighted. The first iPhone was released only 6 years ago, Android 5 years ago. You really think that Microsoft - a company with nearly infinite runway, an enormous R&D investment and serious history - is going to down tools after a few years of frustration? Not likely. The prize is too big and con…

We are getting to a point where the power of the device is less of a distinguishing factor. Lots of people are satisfied with the hardware of the previous generation Iphone or lower spec'd Android Phones. If hardware prices continue to drop the feature phone market (which Nokia dominates) could easily turn into a low end smart phone market. The Windows Phone OS could actually be a good choice for this. This is also u…

> If hardware prices continue to drop the feature phone market (which Nokia dominates) could easily turn into a low end smart phone market. The Windows Phone OS could actually be a good choice for this.

But at the moment the feature phones and almost-smart phones by Nokia, i.e. the Asha series, are not running the Windows Phone OS, but the S40 OS (which is some kind of Symbian I believe).

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#73

Post by panacea »

tankenmate wrote: post #22
hannibal5 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Microsoft sees Smartphones as strategic must have for long term. MS saw that Nokia is the only player in the Windows market and Samsung is never going to be big on MS. They just bought the hardware and are making Windows phones into closed platform like iPhone is. I don't think that Samsung and others are going to continue making windows phones after MS bought Nokia.

The biggest reason that phones are a strategic "must have" is the massive drop in desktop sales.

No. Phones (or watches) as access points to 'your digital life', even if managed on tablets/laptops/desktops, are the digital wallet in your pocket.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#74

Post by slurry »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #58
Alphasite_ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. People may forget, but they don't rebuy things repeatadly.

Somebody gave one of my students a fairly (< 1yr old) new laptop the other day because they got it loaded up with viruses, (virii?) There is a market segment with more money than brains, it is large.

Viruses.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#75

Post by [deleted] »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #58
Alphasite_ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. People may forget, but they don't rebuy things repeatadly.

Somebody gave one of my students a fairly (< 1yr old) new laptop the other day because they got it loaded up with viruses, (virii?) There is a market segment with more money than brains, it is large.

[deleted]

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#76

Post by [deleted] »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #58
Alphasite_ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. People may forget, but they don't rebuy things repeatadly.

Somebody gave one of my students a fairly (< 1yr old) new laptop the other day because they got it loaded up with viruses, (virii?) There is a market segment with more money than brains, it is large.

[deleted]

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#77

Post by discodave »

andrewfong wrote: post #30
shangaslammi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the effect of ecosystem lock-down is huge compared to 5-6 years ago. It's not about who makes the best phones or phone-OS anymore. People are invested in their respective app ecosystems and all their photos, contacts, documents etc. are in Apple's or Google's cloud. I'm not saying that Microsoft doesn't have a chance at all but I think the odds are against Windows phones ever reaching a significant market sh…

Six years ago, most smartphone users were heavily invested in their Windows Mobile or Symbian app ecosystems, or in Blackberry's messaging ecosystem. That said, to pull off an iPhone- and Android-style upset though, Microsoft would need a correspondingly huge difference in user experience though. The UI on Windows Phone is nifty, but it's not enough of a game changer for most people. It'd really have to be something…

Except in the six years ago case 'most smartphone users' was a much smaller part of the entire phone market.

Even blackberry's didn't have nearly as high a share as iOS or Android.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#78

Post by windexh8er »

polemic wrote: post #11

> "...I think Microsoft ought to abandon Windows Phone. The war is over, and iOS and Android won." That's remarkably short-sighted. The first iPhone was released only 6 years ago, Android 5 years ago. You really think that Microsoft - a company with nearly infinite runway, an enormous R&D investment and serious history - is going to down tools after a few years of frustration? Not likely. The prize is too big and con…

It's not about having the resources, it's knowing when you understand you don't have the devices to compete. Then myth that Microsoft has "unlimited runway" is just pure market BS at this point. Microsoft is not invincible based on its former pedigree. We also know that they're likely being funneled money via programs that spy on Americans and are likely helping float products that should have failed (speculation, but the facts are there).

The crux of it is Microsoft is not good at R&D today. Microsoft sells products that people still buy. People don't buy Nokia as much. What was the driver? Surely not to turn them around. We know that's not what they do with an acquisition.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#79

Post by discodave »

justincormack wrote: post #55
akandiah wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My vote also goes for Nokia being financially in trouble, and M$ have their hand forced by the fear of a collapse in Nokia would gut the distribution channels for all the flagship windows phone models. I believe M$ and Nokia made a strategic agreement around 12 months ago that guaranteed that if anyone were to purchase Nokia, it would be Microsoft. The writing has been on the wall since then. I don't know why people…

No need for a deal. Going windows phone only made Nokia unsaleable to anyone else anyway.

Except by somebody who had an interest in making WP go away...

Although I'm sure there would be howls of protest and possibly regulatory issues with Google, Samsung or Apple buying Nokia.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#80

Post by slurry »

throwawaykf02 wrote: post #49
Samuel_Michon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand that reasoning. Why would a phone maker choose Windows Phone over Android? – Android is cheaper than Windows Phone (many phone makers pay Microsoft to be able to use patents used in Android, but even then, Android is cheaper than Windows Phone) – Android has lower system requirements than Windows Phone – Android has a thriving app market, Windows Phone doesn’t Windows Phone low-end phones will only…

Android certainly does not have lower system requirements than Windows Phone. I mean, it could run on lower spec hardware... for some definition of "run". Mine are both last-gen devices, but my Lumia has half the cores and RAM as my Galaxy and runs twice as smoothly. I hear later versions of Android did get smoother on flagship phones, but I don't know how or if that translates to lower-end devices.

The smoothness thing is actually an architectural choice. On Windows and iOS, the multitasking subsystem will stop the world for a user gesture. On Android it treats a user gesture as one task to handle among many.
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