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The Deal That Makes No Sense

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Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#51

Post by 7952 »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #28
7952 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are getting to a point where the power of the device is less of a distinguishing factor. Lots of people are satisfied with the hardware of the previous generation Iphone or lower spec'd Android Phones. If hardware prices continue to drop the feature phone market (which Nokia dominates) could easily turn into a low end smart phone market. The Windows Phone OS could actually be a good choice for this. This is also u…

I don’t understand that reasoning. Why would a phone maker choose Windows Phone over Android? – Android is cheaper than Windows Phone (many phone makers pay Microsoft to be able to use patents used in Android, but even then, Android is cheaper than Windows Phone) – Android has lower system requirements than Windows Phone – Android has a thriving app market, Windows Phone doesn’t Windows Phone low-end phones will only…

These Android manufacturers are generally not just shipping vanilla Android and have development costs on top of patents and licensing. They do this because owning the software stack gives power, and they believe it distinguishes them (although usually makes the product worse than stock Android). Microsoft want to own the software stack so shipping Windows on Nokia phones makes sense. It wouldn't make sense for other manufacturers unless they don't mind loosing power over the stack (which Samsung, Huawei, Amazon etc. don't want).

I agree with your points regarding limitations with Windows Phone. Just because an opportunity exists doesn't mean that they will succeed. Although I am unconvinced that the app market is that important. A few key apps are important, but Android app purchases lag heavily behind iPhone, and it is reasonable to suggest that feature phone users will lag even further (especially without a locally integrated payment system in developing markets).

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#52

Post by 7952 »

300bps wrote: post #39
Samuel_Michon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand that reasoning. Why would a phone maker choose Windows Phone over Android? – Android is cheaper than Windows Phone (many phone makers pay Microsoft to be able to use patents used in Android, but even then, Android is cheaper than Windows Phone) – Android has lower system requirements than Windows Phone – Android has a thriving app market, Windows Phone doesn’t Windows Phone low-end phones will only…

Just for a funny anecdote, an Android user at.my work asked me what virus scanning software I used on my Windows Phone 8. I laughed because I thought he was making fun of Windows Phone. Turned out he was serious - his Galaxy had gotten two different viruses and he was running virus scan on it. I told him that ironically Microsoft's market share wasn't high enough for malware authors to target.

And Android is complicated enough that it doesn't feel secure when it gets bloated. It is easy for someone used to windows to imagine that slowness or crashing are caused by a virus.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#53

Post by matwood »

300bps wrote: post #37
shangaslammi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the effect of ecosystem lock-down is huge compared to 5-6 years ago. It's not about who makes the best phones or phone-OS anymore. People are invested in their respective app ecosystems and all their photos, contacts, documents etc. are in Apple's or Google's cloud. I'm not saying that Microsoft doesn't have a chance at all but I think the odds are against Windows phones ever reaching a significant market sh…

IPhone 3G, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, Lumia 928. Those are my last four smart phones. I didn't feel locked in at all to the "app ecosystem". Honestly web and email were paramount and everything else is secondary. At some point in the future I believe native apps will be passe in favor of a complete move to web applications making the underlying platform completely personal preference. ...oh.and at one time I was locked int…

Not just the phone market, but any consumer market. Consumers are fickle and can love something one day and hate it the next.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#54

Post by throwawaykf02 »

300bps wrote: post #41
kennethh wrote: post #7

Elop must have the record in destroying a company. In 5 years a company went from being market leader with something like 90% of the smartphone market to almost bankrupt. I do not think something like this have ever happened this fast.

Yeah the completely market revolutionizing iPhone taking all of the high end market and Android taking all the low to high end market had nothing to do with Nokia's downfall.

And multiple Chinese manufacturers taking all the dumbphone market in previously-huge Nokia strongholds like India and China.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#55

Post by justincormack »

akandiah wrote: post #33
shadowmint wrote: post #21

I don't agree with all the things in this article, but there certainly rings a bell of truth in there somewhere. A 5.44 billion EURO transaction to acquire a company that is already in a strategic partnership with you and working exclusively with your platform doesn't make sense. My vote also goes for Nokia being financially in trouble, and M$ have their hand forced by the fear of a collapse in Nokia would gut the di…

>My vote also goes for Nokia being financially in trouble, and M$ have their hand forced by the fear of a collapse in Nokia would gut the distribution channels for all the flagship windows phone models. I believe M$ and Nokia made a strategic agreement around 12 months ago that guaranteed that if anyone were to purchase Nokia, it would be Microsoft. The writing has been on the wall since then. I don't know why people…

No need for a deal. Going windows phone only made Nokia unsaleable to anyone else anyway.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#56

Post by iaskwhy »

rmc wrote: post #46
maaaats wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is full of errors and unbacked claims. > ... adding on a mobile phone business that Microsoft probably should abandon ... Why should it be abandoned? Just because the author isn't a fan of WP8? > have argued that Stephen Elop made a massive strategic error by choosing Windows Phone over Android; ... It would have been to Nokia’s benefit to have everyone running Android, including themselves. Not necessari…

Why should it be abandoned? Just because the author isn't a fan of WP8? The general public aren't a fan of WP8 either.

20% of the general public in Poland, Mexico and some Eastern European countries don't agree with that claim. People forget how varied is the smartphone market across regions.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#57

Post by chris_wot »

bodyfour wrote: post #29
polemic wrote: post #11

> "...I think Microsoft ought to abandon Windows Phone. The war is over, and iOS and Android won." That's remarkably short-sighted. The first iPhone was released only 6 years ago, Android 5 years ago. You really think that Microsoft - a company with nearly infinite runway, an enormous R&D investment and serious history - is going to down tools after a few years of frustration? Not likely. The prize is too big and con…

Exactly. Plus it's a prize Microsoft probably feels it can't afford to lose. If Android magically evaporated tomorrow Google would be just fine -- the core of their business (ad sales) doesn't fundamentally require that they control the mobile platform, although it certainly makes things easier. Microsoft, on the other hand, had for decades been the platform company. They've historically tried to grow by pushing out…

Plus it's a prize Microsoft probably feels it can't afford to lose.

This whole post reads like a warning about the sunken cost fallacy!

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#58

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

Alphasite_ wrote: post #50
harrytuttle wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. Most of the general users I know forget their email password every time they fuck up their phone and just buy all the apps again. This is the norm. The only thing people give a shit about is their data (and that is usually when it's way to late and they're about to lose it), not the apps.

No it's not. People may forget, but they don't rebuy things repeatadly.

Somebody gave one of my students a fairly (< 1yr old) new laptop the other day because they got it loaded up with viruses, (virii?) There is a market segment with more money than brains, it is large.

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#59

Post by chris_wot »

iaskwhy wrote: post #56
rmc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be abandoned? Just because the author isn't a fan of WP8? The general public aren't a fan of WP8 either.

20% of the general public in Poland, Mexico and some Eastern European countries don't agree with that claim. People forget how varied is the smartphone market across regions.

Only 20%? This is not a great argument!

Re: The Deal That Makes No Sense

#60

Post by xutopia »

The deal totally makes sense from my perspective. I wouldn't be surprised if they try really hard to buy BlackBerry for cheap as well when they falter low enough to be worth it for them.
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