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Nokia acquired by Microsoft

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Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#371
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. There are a lot of people who would have picked up the attractive, well built, well engineered Nokia devices if they had the platform of Android. The core problem with the "no money in Android" argument is that you can't choose not to compete with Android if you're in the smartphone game, which is pretty obvio…

WP8 suffers more from a perception problem than anything else. I just switched from android to wp8 and the way i see it i got the smooth interaction and ease of use of iOS at the price point of android. The US market is a special beast because the subsidies erase most of the price difference, but in markets where people buy unlocked I think WP8 can take a lot of market share away from android by virtue of its better…

[deleted]

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple already lost to Android. Last count, Android had 80% of the market." Everyone throws this out there, but phones running 2.3 that cost less than $100 are practically a different product than what Apple and Samsung are offering, which is where the true battle is. Over 1/3 of all Androids run 2.3: http://www.ibtimes.com/android-vs-ios-adoption-rates-jelly-b...

A 2.3 Phone will run almost every existing Android app out there. In fact, most Android apps target 2.2 and up.

Yes, truly a great time to be an Android developer...

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#374
post #38

This is a great move. There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. With Windows Phone, Nokia and Microsoft at least have some hope of carving out a profitable stake in the market. Anecdotally, I'm very impressed with some of the new Lumias. I got a 620 to replace my stolen iPhone, and for $200 unlocked its phenomenal phone. The build quality makes a flag…

"There's no money in being an Android vendor if except if you're Samsung" is a silly statement. Nokia _could_ have done just like Amazon, and created their own platform based off Android, but with no ties to the Google ecosystem. With Meego, they could even have made a compatibility layer allowing developers to easily port their Android apps. However, that plan would only have worked if they did it just around the ti…

No, they couldn't have for the same reason no other android vendor can: they have no compelling way of differentiating an Android spin off, unlike Amazon who has tremendous media store resources. Its just shitty skins like Sense and Touchwiz.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#375
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Nokia had more to do with Nokia's decline than iOS or Android. They had the hardware and software to do what Apple and Palm did at least a full generation before iPhone 1.

The Nokia n95 was announced in September 2006 and available in March 2007. Its ad slogan was "It's what computers have become."[0] What stands out in the second paragraph of the article where they highlight the capabilities is "the ability to install and run third party Java ME or Symbian mobile applications". By contrast, the iPhone was decidedly not a computer. Not in the traditional sense. It is apparent in hindsi…

> It is apparent in hindsight that people don't care about the downsides of being inside a walled garden

There's a danger in repeating such things as if they are facts, as the people that matter (e.g. developers, investors) start actually believing them. It's bullshit of course, but I don't blame you for being intoxicated by such propaganda.

When the iPhone was released, its success had much to do with it feeling like a portable computer that's polished instead of feeling like an expensive and failed experiment that was pushed on the market for the punishment and torturing of early adopters (like all the other phones before it, with the possible exception of Blackberries that I never tried). The iPhone for example was the first phone I used with a usable browser and a usable email client, two extremely critical pieces of functionality that every other phone maker was failing to deliver.

But living in a technological bubble, such as it happens when living in a place such as San Francisco where you see MacBooks and iPads everywhere, does tend to distort reality.

Fact of the matter is, customers don't care about walled gardens as long as they don't feel the walls. Take away some freedom they care about or show them what openness can do and they'll instantly reconsider their choices.

Example:

I went from an iPhone 3GS to an Android because of 3 things - I couldn't block calls and SMS messages coming from some annoying numbers (Apple was banning such apps from iOS) + I couldn't do Wifi tethering with my iPhone because the capability was disabled by my career + uploading music on it wasn't as easy as simply connecting the phone through USB and copy/pasting files. Nowadays I have other reasons too, including the fact that iOS does not allow Firefox. And I also remember fondly when Google Voice was rejected back in 2009, because it "duplicated existing functionality".

I later explained my reasoning to two other non-technical folks, showing them what my Android could do that their device couldn't. They are now Android users. And I can probably convince more people of how dumb and locked down their expensive gadget is, if I cared enough, but I don't because Android is number 1 without my help and openness had everything to do with it (being a doubly edged sword no doubt, since open also means open for careers and phone makers).

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#376
post #38

This is a great move. There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. With Windows Phone, Nokia and Microsoft at least have some hope of carving out a profitable stake in the market. Anecdotally, I'm very impressed with some of the new Lumias. I got a 620 to replace my stolen iPhone, and for $200 unlocked its phenomenal phone. The build quality makes a flag…

There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. I remember when the consensus was that there was no money in being an Android vendor, period. I'm also not sure how the $10 billion valuation of Xiaomi, on sales of $2 billion Android phones figures into this "not making money" thing. Weirdly, those charts you see every few months that tell that "Only Samsung…

Lenovo doesn't make any money. $500m on $30bn revenue. No point in being in that game.

For the downvoters: Nokia is losing money right now, but managed to post a profit for Q4 2012, which at $585m was more than Lenovo made in all of 2012, and about 5-6 times more than ZTE made in 2012.

Beyond a certain point, market share is much less important than profits, much more so in the phone space because it's not like the desktop operating system space where people are building up large systems that will be hard to port in the future.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's not like anyone is making a killing off of all those Linux/Android powered devices out there. Except the users. Users win big time when there's an effective open source option for them to choose.

Um, no. See under Linux Desktop. Big fail, over all these years, even if it's more capable of Windows. It's more capable of Mac, too, and guess what most nerdy types with enough money buys? Users don't give a damn about Open Source. They don't even know what Open Source is (just ask some average teen girl with Android phone what she thinks about Android openness). What they want is an acceptable shiny device that doe…

Even if users don't care about Open Source, Linux being available for people to run cheap, secure, reliable servers have been a huge win for users as it has been a catalyst for the web.

Similarly, having the Android source code available has increased the amount of handset manufacturers who choose to use it and increasing competition, putting on downward price pressure.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#378
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Nokia had more to do with Nokia's decline than iOS or Android. They had the hardware and software to do what Apple and Palm did at least a full generation before iPhone 1.

The Nokia n95 was announced in September 2006 and available in March 2007. Its ad slogan was "It's what computers have become."[0] What stands out in the second paragraph of the article where they highlight the capabilities is "the ability to install and run third party Java ME or Symbian mobile applications". By contrast, the iPhone was decidedly not a computer. Not in the traditional sense. It is apparent in hindsi…

Oh, the N95. The worst phone I have ever used, ever. The specs were amazing, but it could barely make a phone call! Total rubbish.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#380
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 2.3 Phone will run almost every existing Android app out there. In fact, most Android apps target 2.2 and up.

Yes, truly a great time to be an Android developer...

Thank you for sharing this enormously important insight. I'd bet you had to think hard to come up with that one.

Btw: I am an Android developer having a truly great time with this and other platforms.

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