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Nokia acquired by Microsoft

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Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#301

Post by Samuel_Michon »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #298
Samuel_Michon wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has a long history of not playing fair. If it were to have 33% of the market, it isn’t unthinkable that it will try all possible dirty tricks in the book to gain the upper hand. Right now, Windows Phone’s market share is negligible, Microsoft has zero leverage so it has to play by the book.

Microsoft is also a completely different company now than it was dozens of years ago when this was an issue. They're more safe now, less risky.

“Microsoft executives have proved, time and time again, to be inaccurate, misleading, evasive, and transparently false. ... Microsoft is a company with an institutional disdain for both the truth and for rules of law that lesser entities must respect. It is also a company whose senior management is not averse to offering specious testimony to support spurious defenses to claims of its wrongdoing.” –Judge Thomas Jackson, 2001, United States v. Microsoft

In the last decade, Microsoft has been investigated and fined by several governments, and investigations by several are still ongoing.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#302

Post by general_failure »

DominikR wrote: post #296

To me, this is borderline criminal behaviour and shows once more that Microsoft is incapable of playing fair. Installing a trojan horse as Nokias CEO, who then proceeds to destroy any value left in that company so that Microsoft can pick it up for a cheap price. I'd be amazed if Elop is promoted to MS's CEO position for such deceitful behaviour

I don't think elop was a Trojan horse, I don't think any of this was preplanned.

But I do think elop is a weasel and a scum and it would be seriously disgusting to have him as Microsoft CEO. He did a gross disservice to nokia and nobody I know has any iota of respect for him. He has no leadership qualities whatsoever. In fact, he is what you call a corporate whore. He pleases others and wins favors. Like now he has done ms a favor and they will make him CEO.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#303

Post by mynameisvlad »

noisy_boy wrote: post #182
kyro wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed re: Samsung. With this new acquisition, Microsoft now has the ability to control the entire mobile phone experience -- something Apple has had huge success doing for years now. They'll have a high-quality platform to promote their app store and create an interesting ecosystem. This'll also create a distinct image in consumer's minds of what the Microsoft Phone is, similar to what we imagine when we think of th…

Microsoft has already done that end-to-end experience thing with Surface and that didn't turn out all that well. Windows phone has been critically acclaimed but that hasn't really made much dent on the IPhone/Android duopoly. And the relatively more successful windows phone devices aren't exactly sub-standard, infact they are quite high quality handsets made by the same manufacturer they just acquired. I'm doubtful h…

Surface was a failure in marketing, not the devices themselves (okay, Surface RT was pretty bad). The hardware is great, and people love it, and the Surface Pro is really useful for students and even small time developers, and people generally really love it after playing with one.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#304

Post by buster »

DominikR wrote: post #296

To me, this is borderline criminal behaviour and shows once more that Microsoft is incapable of playing fair. Installing a trojan horse as Nokias CEO, who then proceeds to destroy any value left in that company so that Microsoft can pick it up for a cheap price. I'd be amazed if Elop is promoted to MS's CEO position for such deceitful behaviour

I think the exact same thing...

  - get ex MS employee to be Nokia CEO
  - fire lots of Nokia employees
  - run the company down
  - buy Nokia, hire ex MS employee to run that part
It's a shame, i never had a Nokia, but the featurephones atleast have been decent hardware and quality. They haven't been marketleader for nothing..

Oh, and by the way, the next step will be:

  - buy all Nokia patents (if they haven't as well)
  - sue rest of the market
Nokia must be sitting on a huge pile of relevant mobile and networking patents (although the networking stuff may stay with NSN).

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#305

Post by hannibal5 »

DominikR wrote: post #296

To me, this is borderline criminal behaviour and shows once more that Microsoft is incapable of playing fair. Installing a trojan horse as Nokias CEO, who then proceeds to destroy any value left in that company so that Microsoft can pick it up for a cheap price. I'd be amazed if Elop is promoted to MS's CEO position for such deceitful behaviour

MS is known for it's ruthless business tactics. Nokia joins the long list of MS partners who got hosed. It's impossible to say how well planned this whole thing was, or if there was any gaps. But it's certainly possible.

1. Elop is the new rising star in MS.

2. Big American shareholders (who own more MS stock than Nokia) force Ollila to pick guy from America.

3. Elop commits to MS software almost instantly.

4. Widely criticized "burning platform" speech kills the revenue making phone business almost overnight. Nokia must commit to MS and it can't look sideways.

3. Elop's family has been living in Redmond all these years. They did not move as Elop initially said.

4. Ballmer announces retirement just before Nokia deal.

5. Nokia sells cheap just when sales show small hope.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#306

Post by wmboy »

corresation wrote: post #144
wmboy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...they are not buying any patents. They are buying a 10-year license to Nokia's patents. That's basically the same isn't it? A patent can only remain active for 20 years, assuming most of the patents are several years old the majority of them will be pretty close to expiration in 10 years time. Note: I'm basing this on NZ patent law, but I assuming it's the same for any 1st world country...

That's basically the same isn't it? If Microsoft owned the patents they could enforce them against others. As a licensee, they simply protect themselves from Nokia enforcing it against them. As I said elsewhere in here, a Nokia with a big stack of patents and no hardware business is going to be an ugly thing for the industry: They can go gangbusters with patent assaults while having nothing for their victim's to atta…

> If Microsoft owned the patents they could enforce them against others.

Thanks for the clarification, that makes sense

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#307

Post by pisarzp »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #295
cageface wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but the difference here is that Macs are still better machines in most respects. Macs endure as a niche product because they're higher quality products. Premium Android phones, on the other hand, provide a user experience that a lot of people consider superior.

That argument is stupid. Please give a source for "a lot of people" considering it superior. A lot of people I know consider the iPhone/Apple ecosystem superior. And no, you can't use market share to back this up, as much as you might want to. Because that doesn't measure user experiences being considered superior. There's a lot more factors that go into market share; that's just one of them.

It's not stupid. He just said what he knows anectodically, and I can confirm from many discussions I had.

As a data point just take the number of people who chose Samsung Galaxy S4 or HTC One over iPhone, even though they cost more less the same.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#308

Post by mynameisvlad »

venomsnake wrote: post #274
300bps wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started using Slackware Linux in 1997. If I had a nickel for everytime someone declared the Linux desktop is imminent since then I'd have more money than Bill Gates.

Next year is always the year of the Linux desktop. But I begin seeing worries in people where MS is pushing the OS (mostly privacy concerns) and is seems running windows in a hypervisor with VGA card passed trough is becoming more and more popular.

> and is seems running windows in a hypervisor with VGA card passed trough is becoming more and more popular.

I know absolutely nobody who does this.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#309

Post by bad_user »

mbreese wrote: post #232
bad_user wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When he took over, Nokia still had the in-house expertise and the resources for a turnaround. In fact Nokia N9 would have been a raging success, if Eliop wouldn't have killed it. And another thing: the feature phone business is huge and underserved by Android. Nokia was in the best position to come up with a reasonable alternative.

When Elop was brought in, the board was clearly signaling that a turnaround from within was not going to happen. The Microsoft smartphone strategy was already in place and was going to happen. I have a lot of respect for Nokia, but they had the technology for the iPhone and iPad long before Apple (roughly), and they were never able to capitalize on it. Hell, I had an N770 in 2006 and it was great. But it wasn't even…

Wouldn't it be absolutely embarrassing if Firefox OS ends up capturing 5-10% of the market? And personally I think it will, just like I knew Nokia is dead after announcing their new Windows Phone strategy.

Nokia is a textbook example of things not to do. All the talk about them not being able to deliver the iOS polish / experience is simply not true. That's not what killed them.

What killed them is that they focused on price and quantity instead of quality, coupled with schizophrenic business decisions.

Example: Nokia closed their factory in Bochum, Germany to move to Cluj, Romania for cutting costs. Then they closed their factory in Romania, with the rumours being that they'll move to Moldova. They didn't of course, moving the production to China.

The reason for these moves? Simple - in both cases Nokia took advantage of subsidies granted by governments / the EU, which are given as an initial incentive.

At the time, the public opinion was like "oh, but Nokia is a big capitalist and they have a duty to their shareholders" and "China makes more sense for Nokia". Well, I find a sort of poetic justice in how things turned out for them.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#310

Post by markdown »

buster wrote: post #304
DominikR wrote: post #296

To me, this is borderline criminal behaviour and shows once more that Microsoft is incapable of playing fair. Installing a trojan horse as Nokias CEO, who then proceeds to destroy any value left in that company so that Microsoft can pick it up for a cheap price. I'd be amazed if Elop is promoted to MS's CEO position for such deceitful behaviour

I think the exact same thing... - get ex MS employee to be Nokia CEO - fire lots of Nokia employees - run the company down - buy Nokia, hire ex MS employee to run that part It's a shame, i never had a Nokia, but the featurephones atleast have been decent hardware and quality. They haven't been marketleader for nothing.. Oh, and by the way, the next step will be: - buy all Nokia patents (if they haven't as well) - sue…

This deal includes a purchase of Nokia's handset division, and a licensing of a lot of their patents.
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