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Nokia acquired by Microsoft

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Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#231

Post by Moto7451 »

kbaker wrote: post #61
Moto7451 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I doubt purchasing Nokia's phone business would make PC vendors any more worried than Surface/Surface Pro did. Windows is still king of the desktop and unless Android becomes a desktop OS or Apple starts licensing OS X there aren't any real alternatives with consumer brand recognition. If Ubuntu were the answer then System 76 would be more than a boutique PC maker. If MS starts making desktops, laptops, a…

Idk, sounds like the year of Linux on the desktop is closer than it has ever been. :) But you should really look at Chromebooks/ChromeOS for one glimpse of what a consumer-friendly, non-MS system would really look like. Right now it is the #1 selling laptop on Amazon, and reviews are pretty positive. If I was a shareholder in MSFT, I would seriously be worried for the future of the whole Windows platform, mobile and…

If we allow Android/Linux as a member of "Linux on the Desktop" I whole heartedly agree. I'm not sold on the GNU/Linux variant.

System 76 does a great job of making "just works" Linux hardware but they're not exactly a big player. Android and iOS have the advantage that they don't have to work like Windows. Even OS X suffers "this doesn't work like my Windows did" from switchers.

Mobile OSes can work like Android/iOS + their own unique flavor and have some leeway that desktop OSes aren't afforded. UI/UX for modern touch devices lacks the expectations that 18 years of mostly consistent Windows UI/UXhas built for the "traditional" Linux desktop.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#232

Post by mbreese »

bad_user wrote: post #226
mbreese wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking at it from a "stop the bleeding" point of view. When he took over, Nokia's stock was a little less around $9... down from it's high of almost $40 3 year earlier. Things had somewhat stabilized, but it was clear that Nokia was no longer going to be the top tier phone maker they had been for a decade. The strategy at that time was to ditch their Symbian and Linux platforms and jump 100% into the Windows Pho…

When he took over, Nokia still had the in-house expertise and the resources for a turnaround. In fact Nokia N9 would have been a raging success, if Eliop wouldn't have killed it. And another thing: the feature phone business is huge and underserved by Android. Nokia was in the best position to come up with a reasonable alternative.

When Elop was brought in, the board was clearly signaling that a turnaround from within was not going to happen. The Microsoft smartphone strategy was already in place and was going to happen.

I have a lot of respect for Nokia, but they had the technology for the iPhone and iPad long before Apple (roughly), and they were never able to capitalize on it. Hell, I had an N770 in 2006 and it was great. But it wasn't even close to being finished enough for the masses. My fear with MeeGo was that it wasn't in the same league as the iPhone design-wise. Hardware-wise, Nokia has always been top notch. It's the mix of software and design where they seemed to be lacking. It might be that they may have put too much emphasis on open-source and Linux graphics at the time.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#233

Post by cageface »

macspoofing wrote: post #212
BuckRogers wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple already lost to Android. That's not true. Apple's mobile devices are more profitable than any single line of Android devices. Also, sales of the iPad vs any other line of Android tablets, ie. Samsung's are not even close. Your comparison is no different than comparing Windows Server vs Linux servers. Yes, it might have hurt the market for WinServer a little bit (and Apple's iOS devices), but it's not like any…

>Your comparison is no different than comparing Windows Server vs Linux servers. I think a better comparison is Mac vs. Windows. Windows won, but Macs are still thriving, and Apple is making nice margins. This is how I see iOS vs. Android playing out.

Perhaps, but the difference here is that Macs are still better machines in most respects. Macs endure as a niche product because they're higher quality products.

Premium Android phones, on the other hand, provide a user experience that a lot of people consider superior.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#234

Post by jcrei »

The old fat couple in the room had a dance and microsoft just ran out of things to say, so in order to avoid an awkward moment (high end sales are abysmal) he proposed. nokia looked around, didn't want to die alone, and like any scared middle aged woman, said yes.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#235

Post by claudius »

frank_boyd wrote: post #225
barista wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does the same and their phones seems to be selling quite well.

Exactly. And Apple too. But we have 2 alternatives now (and they are even open-source!): 1. Ubuntu: http://www.ubuntu.com/phone 2. FirefoxOS: http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/ So why does it look like everyone's already back to "whatever!"-mode as far as your right to privacy is concerned?

You forgot

3. Jolla http://jolla.com/

where (at least an earlier version of) the OS was actually shipped on a decent phone, the – Nokia – N9.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#236

Post by marcamillion »

Why would MSFT highlight the fact that the cash is coming from overseas in the PR? Is there a tax benefit to doing something like that?

Specifically:

Under the terms of the agreement, Microsoft will pay EUR 3.79 billion to purchase substantially all of Nokia’s Devices & Services business, and EUR 1.65 billion to license Nokia’s patents, for a total transaction price of EUR 5.44 billion in cash. Microsoft will draw upon its overseas cash resources to fund the transaction.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/Sep13/09-02An...

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#237

Post by Joeri »

corresation wrote: post #84
rayiner wrote: post #38

This is a great move. There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. With Windows Phone, Nokia and Microsoft at least have some hope of carving out a profitable stake in the market. Anecdotally, I'm very impressed with some of the new Lumias. I got a 620 to replace my stolen iPhone, and for $200 unlocked its phenomenal phone. The build quality makes a flag…

There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. There are a lot of people who would have picked up the attractive, well built, well engineered Nokia devices if they had the platform of Android. The core problem with the "no money in Android" argument is that you can't choose not to compete with Android if you're in the smartphone game, which is pretty obvio…

WP8 suffers more from a perception problem than anything else. I just switched from android to wp8 and the way i see it i got the smooth interaction and ease of use of iOS at the price point of android. The US market is a special beast because the subsidies erase most of the price difference, but in markets where people buy unlocked I think WP8 can take a lot of market share away from android by virtue of its better experience at the same price. The apps are a red herring. The Nokia devices ship with so much out of the box functionality that most people probably won't even install any.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#238

Post by mbreese »

leaffig wrote: post #218
mbreese wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which case, for Elop, running Nokia really was the trial run that everyone feared it was when he started. The end-game was for him to be in position to take over Microsoft when Balmer stepped down. I guess he passed Microsoft's test then...

Nokia's board is the one that hired Elop away from Microsoft and was behind his every major decision. So I think the plans were set in motion at Nokia before Elop was even hired. Read up this guy's profile, do you really think he would approve hiring Elop just like that without such an eventuality in sight? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorma_Ollila

Oh, no, I agree... this was all set in motion years ago, and it's all now coming to fruition. I just remember thinking at the time that this all seemed a little too pre-planned. I'm just amazed that it really seems to be happening as expected. Nokia's board knew that this was a very real possibility when Elop was hired.

The real question will be what Elop's role back in Microsoft will be. If he ends up succeeding Balmer, everything that was predicted 3 years ago will end up coming true. I thought it was far-fetched that Nokia was really just the warm-up act to taking over Microsoft. But if that is really what happens, it was certainly foreseeable.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#239

Post by chrischen »

cageface wrote: post #230
ddeck wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple already lost to Android. Last count, Android had 80% of the market. That's like suggesting that Mercedes Benz have lost already to Ford because they have smaller market share. Apple produce a premium product with prices and margins that reflect that. Of course they would prefer dominant market share, as would Mercedes. But a non-majority share does not imply that they've somehow lost.

The car analogy gets trotted out over and over again when talking about smart phone market share but it really doesn't work at all. Smart phone ecosystems have powerful network effects that just don't exist for most luxury goods.

Ok, then go by profit.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#240

Post by Moto7451 »

hippee-lee wrote: post #129
macspoofing wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are a lot of people who would have picked up the attractive, well built, well engineered Nokia devices if they had the platform of Android. Yeah maybe. There is no guarantee that the outcome would have been more favorable than being bought out by Microsoft. >Apple obviously is very much in a battle with Android ... Apple already lost to Android. Last count, Android had 80% of the market. There is zero chance o…

Can we not talk about this in terms of war and battle? It is the business of selling consumer electronics, same as it has always been. You do explain your position well but I feel the references to war and battle water it down. No one has been killed in the development of phones. I get that the MBA crowd read the art of war and it's practical knowledge seeped into popular discussion. But the endless reference to war…

If you want to play a fun game, switch "Apple", "Google", "Microsoft", "Samsung", etc with the names of toothpaste and deodorant brands. It pretty much shows these oddly passionate arguments for what they really are: weird tech company zero sum games repackaged as religious wars. So long as any of these companies have appreciable market share and are profitable they're winning.

If Apple goes out of business it'll be scrappy MS v.s. Giant Google. Or if Google goes out of business it'll be the underdog MS v.s. the 800lb Gorilla named Apple. Even AMD, who has really no business competing with Intel at this point, and also has to deal with the higher performance ARM chips manages to survive and sometimes be profitable. Ultimately none of it matters because history has shown that there's always going to be competition. And ultimately thats exactly the way we want it to be.

Not a single person here should hope Apple and MS go out of business. Otherwise we might find out how evil Google is willing to be. The same holds true for the others. 90% Apple market share wouldn't be particularly good, even for the most rabid Apple fans. iPhone 5SSSSS anyone?

Ultimately what I find the most amusing about the rhetoric, is that post iMac and pre iPod/iPhone, Mac users were just happy that Apple wasn't going to go out of business. Pre Android, Samsung users were happy they were buying quality air conditioners and TVs... People would do well to gain some perspective on this stuff.

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