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Google is defragging Android

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google is defragging Android

#121

Post by chx »

e12e wrote: post #76

"It has its own silent, automatic update mechanism that the user has no control over. In fact, most of the time the user never even knows an update has happened." Great. So, if it was difficult to trust your phone/tablet/tv before it is now impossible. I'm looking more forward to Ubuntu and FirefoxOS than ever before - I want to be able to control what software runs on my devices!

Yeah. You and the thirty other people (minor exaggeration) who reads this page might want to but perhaps even among them there are a few who can't care less. The general public? You know that well.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#122

Post by bowlofpetunias »

turing wrote: post #74
engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. The problem is that your observation isn't true. Here are some of the under-the-hood changes in just the most recent releases of Android: -OpenGL ES 3.0 -Bluetooth low energy/Bluetooth AVRCP -restricted profiles -VP8 encoder -new DRM framework -SELinux -various other optimizatio…

Although "meaningful" is very subjective, one can use Google's rhetoric under which Android was initiated as a touchstone: http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/press_110507.html

Of course when you do that, the current level of openness is not just "no longer meaningful", it's bordering on parody.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#123

Post by charleslmunger »

e12e wrote: post #106
RealCasually wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be free software? What gives you a reason to feel that level of entitlement?

I want the freedom to control what software runs on my device. One straightforward way to do that is for the play app and service (or at least the service api) to be Free software. So, I would like to run Free software on my devices. Thankfully the kernel is still Free software, so there's still hope we can have open distributions going forward. It seems a shame to double the work to achieve that goal, so I think it…

Note that you can replace the Play apk on your device, and create a Free implementation of its (documented) APIs.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#124

Post by teovall »

The elephant in the room here is security.

A lot of security updates can be pushed out for the apps and Play Services. However, the underlying OS still needs regular, frequent updates to stay secure, and that's just not happening for the vast majority of Android devices. Who needs 0-day exploits when you have millions of Android devices out there that are vulnerable to exploits that are one, two, or even three years old!?

Re: Google is defragging Android

#125

Post by Someone »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #53
credo wrote: post #40

>>This is how you beat software fragmentation. This does help defragment Android from a Google (developed) app perspective. However, it doesn't do anything for 3rd-party developers. It doesn't do anything for regular consumers who wish to upgrade their 2.3.3 phones or 4.1 phones to the latest version of Android. So Google has a long way to go before they really defragment Android.

What? It absolutely helps 3rd party app developers. Need a new and better video/gps/network/etc.. api? Right now you stuck depending on a new OS Version. if they start tying api's to play store updates, as they have with things like geolocation/gps functions, they worrying which OS and about fragmentation mostly goes away for 3rd party developers of apps.

I'm not sure about the extent of the 'mostly' part. You still have the huge differences in CPU speed, GPU capabilities, screen sizes and amount of memory to cater with.

That 5 year old phone may have the latest Play Services, but what good is that if that leaves only 10 kilobytes of RAM for your app?

Re: Google is defragging Android

#126

Post by mvanvoorden »

annnnd wrote: post #118
ceejayoz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exceedingly unlikely.

Not really - that was how I understood it too, and the title just didn't make any sense. Is "defragging" a common substitute for "defragmenting"? I have never encountered it before.

Yes it is. When MS-DOS introduced defrag.exe, the term defragging came into existence and never left :)

Re: Google is defragging Android

#127

Post by venomsnake »

jemeshsu wrote: post #111
esolyt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real keys are that your Android device is locked down, fixing it voids your warranty That's not an issue about Android though, it's an issue with manufacturers.You are free to release an Android device that is not locked down.

Just curious, what are the pros and cons to Android manufacturer to lock down a device? Are these Android manufacturer each trying to create its own platform based on an open OS?

Mostly carriers demand it. There is no reason to lock the bootloader otherwise.

Of course a more cynical mind can see a reason in planned obsolescence - if you stop updating a device after an year you will buy your next sooner.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#128

Post by kalleboo »

ajross wrote: post #98
Zigurd wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Location Services is a special API, in that Google bears some costs to enable it for geocoding, for example. It is possible to have access to basic location data from a built-in GPS receiver in AOSP, so the system is not completely dependent on Google Play Services.

Exactly. "GPS" data is certainly available and part of the standard open source framework: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/pack... But access to e.g. Google's giant wifi-to-location database isn't part of that API. And it's a good service, and something that is hard to replicate and thus a competetive advantage. But to speak to the upthread parent: it has nothing to do with "drivers". The HAL…

> And it's a good service, and something that is hard to replicate and thus a competetive advantage.

It's a service that Google will not let manufacturers replace even if they want to. Horribly anti-competetive. http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=14923

Re: Google is defragging Android

#129

Post by fleitz »

andrewfong wrote: post #115
fleitz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most things open source is a continuum of subtle differences rather than a category. In my opinion the following software is much more open than Android: Linux, Apache, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, GCC, clang, and generally most open source products developed by the community. In my opinion the following software is less open than Android: C#, OSX, iOS, and generally most software developed by major corporations. The real…

> The real keys are that your Android device is locked down, fixing it voids your warranty As it should. There's nothing in open source that requires a warranty. Here's a snippet from the MIT license, generally considered open: "THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINF…

Perhaps you shouldn't have to modify a firmware to install your own OS on an 'open' platform.

IBM somehow figured out how to do it on an IBM 5150 back in the early 80s and my Raspberry Pi supports it on ARM systems.

I'm happy to use my iPhone which doesn't allow firmware mods under warranty, however, I've never heard Apple talk about the iPhone being an open platform. Google's stance on the openness of Android strikes me as disingenuous.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#130

Post by fleitz »

esolyt wrote: post #91
fleitz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most things open source is a continuum of subtle differences rather than a category. In my opinion the following software is much more open than Android: Linux, Apache, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, GCC, clang, and generally most open source products developed by the community. In my opinion the following software is less open than Android: C#, OSX, iOS, and generally most software developed by major corporations. The real…

> The real keys are that your Android device is locked down, fixing it voids your warranty That's not an issue about Android though, it's an issue with manufacturers.You are free to release an Android device that is not locked down.

You mean manufactures like Google themselves?

It seems to be an issue with 'Android' as no one, including Google, makes an Android phone on which you can install a modified version of Android without voiding the warranty.

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