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Google is defragging Android

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google is defragging Android

#101

Post by laureny »

Everlag wrote: post #69
laureny wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. You can certainly argue that "less" of Android is being open sourced than a few years ago, but it's still orders of magnitude more open than any of the other mobile OS available on the market. Especially OS X and iOS, which are both 0% open source. Open source fanatics are impossible to satisfy, they will always find a reason why the flavor of open source that a company or an organization picked is not the…

While I agree with your reasoning in the latter sections, comparing android to basically every other mobile os and calling it an order of a magnitude of a difference is a bit strange when they are basically 0.

Good point, I should have said "infinitely" instead of "orders of magnitude".

Re: Google is defragging Android

#102

Post by kevingadd »

jayd16 wrote: post #81
kevingadd wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Play Services having a custom updater and the ability to silently gain more permissions is definitely not something available to average 3rd party developers.

Are you sure this is correct? How is this even possible when you can install Play Services on Android versions before Play Services was even conceived. How can you do this on custom AOSP builds? Play Services must be playing by the same rules as everyone else or it just wouldn't work on as many devices as it does.

I'm not an Android dev, but I would assume that Play Store has always had special permissions in order to be able to install applications, so Google need only deploy an updated version of Play Store for both old/new devices, and that updated version of Play Store have the necessary code to use its privileges to install Play Services and grant Play Services special privileges.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#103

Post by some_guy_there »

estel wrote: post #49
cmircea wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both are available. Any app can request complete control over the system, at which point it can do whatever the hell it wants, short of root. Update? Sure thing, install an APK. Of course the user has to accept your huge list of permissions first.

Normal apps can't install any APK without explicit user consent. The Play Store auto-updates in a similar way.

There are various other Android app store apart from the official play Store (Amazon, F-droid, etc). Any app can request permission to install other apps silently, or may be even a newer version of itself. Play Store uses no private API which is not available to other Android developer. Ask your users to download the apk from your website, if Google Play store won't carry your app, and then built-in a mechanism to auto-update at will.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#104

Post by tomkarlo »

rst wrote: post #46
estel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, Google Play Services largely encompasses those features that were /always/ closed source in Android: maps, google+ and GCM. The Google applications that are core to the "standard" Android experience for most users have also always been closed source: Maps, Gmail, Google Calendar. There are still a lot of new features being introduced to the core Android APIs, with fragmentation issues being mitigat…

They're also migrating some functionality from core Android into Play Services. For example, the replacement for the (effectively broken) proximity alerts is the new geofencing API. But that's not in core Android, it's in Play Services, even though it's all on-device functionality, that doesn't need to interact with any Google central machinery.

That's inaccurate. Location services doesn't just use GPS - it depends on data from Google when determining location via wifi, which is more battery efficient. So there are definitely Google-specific elements in there.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#105

Post by habosa »

some_guy_there wrote: post #103
estel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal apps can't install any APK without explicit user consent. The Play Store auto-updates in a similar way.

There are various other Android app store apart from the official play Store (Amazon, F-droid, etc). Any app can request permission to install other apps silently, or may be even a newer version of itself. Play Store uses no private API which is not available to other Android developer. Ask your users to download the apk from your website, if Google Play store won't carry your app, and then built-in a mechanism to au…

Pretty sure even Facebook used this for a few days when they had their auto-updating beta channel. Nobody seemed to really mind.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#106

Post by e12e »

RealCasually wrote: post #75
e12e wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any reason why the play app shouldn't be Free software. So, while I might be a minority, I'd certainly like to see all of it opened up. I'd much prefer a reality where the play service and app is open, and which upstream source you trust is defined by which certificates you trust, and nothing else. That'd make it trivial to set up trusted sources for a company, for example.

Why should it be free software? What gives you a reason to feel that level of entitlement?

I want the freedom to control what software runs on my device. One straightforward way to do that is for the play app and service (or at least the service api) to be Free software.

So, I would like to run Free software on my devices. Thankfully the kernel is still Free software, so there's still hope we can have open distributions going forward. It seems a shame to double the work to achieve that goal, so I think it makes sense for the software to be opened up.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#107

Post by gaadd33 »

csixty4 wrote: post #94
laureny wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. You can certainly argue that "less" of Android is being open sourced than a few years ago, but it's still orders of magnitude more open than any of the other mobile OS available on the market. Especially OS X and iOS, which are both 0% open source. Open source fanatics are impossible to satisfy, they will always find a reason why the flavor of open source that a company or an organization picked is not the…

> Especially OS X and iOS, which are both 0% open source http://opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-1084/ http://opensource.apple.com/release/ios-61/ (and a lot is shared with OS X, such as the xnu kernel) http://www.cups.org

To be fair, CUPS was around before Apple's involvement and they purchased the source + hired the developer.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#108

Post by saurik »

zenocon wrote: post #66
spion wrote: post #34

As always, everyone forgets to mention the poor, slow and by now outdated Android WebView - which by the way will finally be getting a very important upgrade in the form of WebViewFactory. This may allow using alternative WebViews, such as a chromium-based webview - another important step towards defragmentation. Some more info is available at http://danosipov.com/?p=572

I've been working on something similar myself, since Google has indicated Chromium WebView isn't a priority for them right now https://github.com/davisford/android-chromium-view

How does your work compare to this?

https://github.com/pwnall/chromeview

Re: Google is defragging Android

#109

Post by pkulak »

azakai wrote: post #87
jayd16 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't GooglePlayServices by definition app level? My understanding is it runs in app space. Any other developer could accomplish the same thing.

The article clearly states that new platform APIs are showing up in Google Play services instead of in core Android. The article mentions this as a benefit - 3rd party app developers get access to new APIs quickly and consistently across all Android devices. The downside is the new APIs are showing up in the closed-source Google Play services, and not in the open source Android project.

Here is the API:

http://developer.android.com/reference/gms-packages.html

The only thing there that is not explicitly tied to Google itself is the new location stuff. The rest is game, maps and Google+. I could totally see an argument that the location stuff (geo-fencing and such) would be more appropriate in AOSP, but that's about it. I'm going to keep my pitchfork holstered until I see a real pattern. Well, probably not even then since I don't see closed-source as a personal affront, but you get my drift.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#110

Post by moca »

engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

Android is about as open as it used to be. The core OS is mostly open source, the drivers are mostly closed binaries owned by chip vendors, the apps are closed binaries owned by Google. Google Play services, by its name and nature, is part of Google service. So it is just as closed as it used to be.

Over time, more features are added OS, drivers, apps. That doesn't really change the overall picture much. Amazon and Chinese companies like Xiaomi are pretty successful using the core Android OS for their devices.

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