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Google is defragging Android

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Re: Google is defragging Android

#91

Post by esolyt »

fleitz wrote: post #77
turing wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. The problem is that your observation isn't true. Here are some of the under-the-hood changes in just the most recent releases of Android: -OpenGL ES 3.0 -Bluetooth low energy/Bluetooth AVRCP -restricted profiles -VP8 encoder -new DRM framework -SELinux -various other optimizatio…

Like most things open source is a continuum of subtle differences rather than a category. In my opinion the following software is much more open than Android: Linux, Apache, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, GCC, clang, and generally most open source products developed by the community. In my opinion the following software is less open than Android: C#, OSX, iOS, and generally most software developed by major corporations. The real…

> The real keys are that your Android device is locked down, fixing it voids your warranty

That's not an issue about Android though, it's an issue with manufacturers.You are free to release an Android device that is not locked down.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#92

Post by acjohnson55 »

engrenage wrote: post #55
kailuowang wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still one major difference between play service and osx or ios -it is free and can be installed on any compatible devices, so I wouldn't call it "totally" closed at least not as close as iOS.

Darwin is free and can be installed on any compatible devices.

I'd say that Google does quite a bit more by providing the user layer too, if people want it. It's kind of the best of both worlds between Apple's OS X strategy and Microsoft's Windows strategy: open core and available for OEM hardware.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#93

Post by thrownaway2424 »

pdknsk wrote: post #5

defragmenting defragging It's just 3 letters saved. Vote me down if you must.

I used to work with a guy who would omit a few vowels in one of those gigantzor java-hostage symbol names, like AbstractTemplateSignalsProviderFactoryBn, as if leaving the "ea" out of "Bean" had helped anyone at all.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#94

Post by csixty4 »

laureny wrote: post #67
engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

Nonsense. You can certainly argue that "less" of Android is being open sourced than a few years ago, but it's still orders of magnitude more open than any of the other mobile OS available on the market. Especially OS X and iOS, which are both 0% open source. Open source fanatics are impossible to satisfy, they will always find a reason why the flavor of open source that a company or an organization picked is not the…

> Especially OS X and iOS, which are both 0% open source

http://opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-1084/

http://opensource.apple.com/release/ios-61/ (and a lot is shared with OS X, such as the xnu kernel)

http://www.cups.org

Re: Google is defragging Android

#95

Post by acjohnson55 »

I don't understand what the all negativity over these changes is about. Has a significant amount of mainstream Android features being incorporated into play been from the ecosystem, rather than Google? If so, I can see how this could result in a worse end-user experience. But if not, how does providing timely updates and a less fragmented ecosystem such a horrible outcome? Feel free to enlighten me if I'm missing something.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#96

Post by crumblan »

wtracy wrote: post #85
laureny wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. You can certainly argue that "less" of Android is being open sourced than a few years ago, but it's still orders of magnitude more open than any of the other mobile OS available on the market. Especially OS X and iOS, which are both 0% open source. Open source fanatics are impossible to satisfy, they will always find a reason why the flavor of open source that a company or an organization picked is not the…

> it's still orders of magnitude more open than any of > the other mobile OS available on the market. Symbian? OpenMoko? The upcoming SailfishOS, Tizen, Firefox OS, and Ubuntu phone? Oh, you meant in the U.S., I guess. (Yes, I know that all the above have either already largely failed or have sketchy futures. That's an entirely different kettle of fish.) > Open source fanatics are impossible to satisfy All I want is…

Arbitrary changes? But then how can we ensure that you are charged the proper price for tethering bandwidth versus phone bandwidth? How can we ensure you are paying the right price to blacklist phone numbers? My goodness what if you remove the default apps from the phone? No, that won't do at all.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#97

Post by Knacktus »

turing wrote: post #74
engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. The problem is that your observation isn't true. Here are some of the under-the-hood changes in just the most recent releases of Android: -OpenGL ES 3.0 -Bluetooth low energy/Bluetooth AVRCP -restricted profiles -VP8 encoder -new DRM framework -SELinux -various other optimizatio…

Android is partly open source. It's neither open nor closed in the same way as gray isn't black or white.

Google has all the right to change the openness of it's software, but generally should be truthfull in their marketing. I haven't lately found them promoting Android for being open source, so all we need to be aware of is that Android, iOS, WP, BB are not open and are of course made to create profit for their companies from their users.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#98

Post by ajross »

Zigurd wrote: post #44
speeder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am OEM app developer and can confirm this. One of our apps rely on GPS, and the manufacturers that bought that app from us could only make it work after installing Play Services, and they could not figure a way to make it work without Play Services.

Location Services is a special API, in that Google bears some costs to enable it for geocoding, for example. It is possible to have access to basic location data from a built-in GPS receiver in AOSP, so the system is not completely dependent on Google Play Services.

Exactly. "GPS" data is certainly available and part of the standard open source framework: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/pack...

But access to e.g. Google's giant wifi-to-location database isn't part of that API. And it's a good service, and something that is hard to replicate and thus a competetive advantage.

But to speak to the upthread parent: it has nothing to do with "drivers". The HAL interface for GPS data is part of AOSP.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#99

Post by gareim »

unabridged wrote: post #80
engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

Sure android was a great step forward from ios, but after using it for a couple years I can't wait for a real linux phone and android to be a distant memory. The reason Google chose to back android instead of porting a real linux distro to mobile is because they wanted a market to sell programs, not an OS that already has 1000s of top quality open source programs already available. Google wanted an OS where you don't…

I love Linux, but I disagree with you. The amount of money Google makes from the Play store is negligible compared to their overall revenues. I highly doubt they don't include a file manager so they can make a few more bucks. It probably has more to do with the fact that most people don't need a file manager (mobile computing has a totally different paradigm than desktop computing).

Also, the "1000s of top quality" apps don't exist. Where are they? Most aren't designed for a touch interface so they'd have to be redesigned. Wait, they'd have to be redesigned to give an experience that we already have? How is that not a waste of time? Having seen Ubuntu OS.. It's garbage. "real linux" for the sake of being able to say it isn't worth it if the platform is slower, takes more battery life, and has less apps. Yes, you can improve on those three things, but you'd be putting in so much effort to replicate an OS that is already open source.

A fork of Android is a much better idea than starting from scratch. Look where Maemo, Meego, and Tizen went. Look at where Ubuntu OS will go.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#100

Post by laureny »

wtracy wrote: post #85
laureny wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. You can certainly argue that "less" of Android is being open sourced than a few years ago, but it's still orders of magnitude more open than any of the other mobile OS available on the market. Especially OS X and iOS, which are both 0% open source. Open source fanatics are impossible to satisfy, they will always find a reason why the flavor of open source that a company or an organization picked is not the…

> it's still orders of magnitude more open than any of > the other mobile OS available on the market. Symbian? OpenMoko? The upcoming SailfishOS, Tizen, Firefox OS, and Ubuntu phone? Oh, you meant in the U.S., I guess. (Yes, I know that all the above have either already largely failed or have sketchy futures. That's an entirely different kettle of fish.) > Open source fanatics are impossible to satisfy All I want is…

> All I want is the ability to make arbitrary changes to the software running on my phone. Why is that so hard?

What mainstream OS makes this easier than Android?

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