Google is defragging Android • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is defragging Android

#111

Post by jemeshsu » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 5:47 AM UTC

esolyt wrote: post #91

fleitz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most things open source is a continuum of subtle differences rather than a category. In my opinion the following software is much more open than Android: Linux, Apache, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, GCC, clang, and generally most open source products developed by the community. In my opinion the following software is less open than Android: C#, OSX, iOS, and generally most software developed by major corporations. The real…

> The real keys are that your Android device is locked down, fixing it voids your warranty That's not an issue about Android though, it's an issue with manufacturers.You are free to release an Android device that is not locked down.

Just curious, what are the pros and cons to Android manufacturer to lock down a device? Are these Android manufacturer each trying to create its own platform based on an open OS?

Re: Google is defragging Android

#112

Post by devx » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 5:49 AM UTC

credo wrote: post #40

>>This is how you beat software fragmentation. This does help defragment Android from a Google (developed) app perspective. However, it doesn't do anything for 3rd-party developers. It doesn't do anything for regular consumers who wish to upgrade their 2.3.3 phones or 4.1 phones to the latest version of Android. So Google has a long way to go before they really defragment Android.

The whole point of it is to help 3rd party developers with the API's, so they homogenize the API's through Play Services.

However, you're right about the user part. It will help the users slightly, better apps with latest API's will come along, but the users still won't get the latest features of the OS unless the phone is upgraded to the latest version.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#113

Post by throwaway2048 » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 5:52 AM UTC

esolyt wrote: post #91

fleitz wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most things open source is a continuum of subtle differences rather than a category. In my opinion the following software is much more open than Android: Linux, Apache, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, GCC, clang, and generally most open source products developed by the community. In my opinion the following software is less open than Android: C#, OSX, iOS, and generally most software developed by major corporations. The real…

> The real keys are that your Android device is locked down, fixing it voids your warranty That's not an issue about Android though, it's an issue with manufacturers.You are free to release an Android device that is not locked down.

thats effectively a distinction without a difference to consumers, to run android you still need an android device.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#114

Post by klrr » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 6:01 AM UTC

turing wrote: post #74

engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. The problem is that your observation isn't true. Here are some of the under-the-hood changes in just the most recent releases of Android: -OpenGL ES 3.0 -Bluetooth low energy/Bluetooth AVRCP -restricted profiles -VP8 encoder -new DRM framework -SELinux -various other optimizatio…

The key problem here is that it's open source. The meaning of that term has become very vague, not that OSI's definition is unclear but rather since many people apply the term to so many things. Open source is usually applied for marketing and convenience now days rather than actually showing that this software provides the essential freedoms for the user.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#115

Post by andrewfong » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 6:09 AM UTC

fleitz wrote: post #77

turing wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. The problem is that your observation isn't true. Here are some of the under-the-hood changes in just the most recent releases of Android: -OpenGL ES 3.0 -Bluetooth low energy/Bluetooth AVRCP -restricted profiles -VP8 encoder -new DRM framework -SELinux -various other optimizatio…

Like most things open source is a continuum of subtle differences rather than a category. In my opinion the following software is much more open than Android: Linux, Apache, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, GCC, clang, and generally most open source products developed by the community. In my opinion the following software is less open than Android: C#, OSX, iOS, and generally most software developed by major corporations. The real…

> The real keys are that your Android device is locked down, fixing it voids your warranty

As it should. There's nothing in open source that requires a warranty. Here's a snippet from the MIT license, generally considered open:

"THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT."

And from the GPL, also open:

"THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW."

When manufacturers go out of their way to lock down a device, I agree that's a jerk move. But I also don't think it's reasonable to expect them to agree to replace your device if it bricks after you've hacked the firmware. Obviously, the device may be bricked for reasons entirely unrelated to whatever you've hacked, but I don't begrudge manufacturers for drawing a line in the sand and not wanting to expend resources beyond it.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#116

Post by product50 » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 6:24 AM UTC

engrenage wrote: post #6

Notably, Play services is totally closed. So Google has abandoned the open source part of Android and is now developing the operating system as a completely closed product. Edit: downvotes don't change the truth of the observation. Android is no longer meaningfully open, other than a years old core of basic functions. Just like OSX and Darwin.

It is amazing how big of an ass you are. Make an assertion --> people provide counter-arguments and downvote you. You --> provide no explanation to your initial assertion and ass-ily mention that downvotes are meaningless.

Be a man and get into the argument if you really believe what you are saying. Otherwise keep blowing yourself to fool yourself into thinking that it is the same thing.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#117

Post by Someone » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 6:24 AM UTC

gaadd33 wrote: post #107

csixty4 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially OS X and iOS, which are both 0% open source http://opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-1084/ http://opensource.apple.com/release/ios-61/ (and a lot is shared with OS X, such as the xnu kernel) http://www.cups.org

To be fair, CUPS was around before Apple's involvement and they purchased the source + hired the developer.

That applies to a zillion other parts of Mac OS X, too, but does that matter?

If it matters: to be fair, Android was around before Google's involvement and they purchased the source + hired the developer (1), and the Linux core of Android also wasn't developed by Google, IIRC.

(1) they probably did more work on Android than Apple did on CUPS, but that's a gradual difference.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#118

Post by annnnd » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 6:35 AM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #39

wicknicks wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video game community might misinterpret it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frag_%28video_gaming%29

That's exceedingly unlikely.

Not really - that was how I understood it too, and the title just didn't make any sense. Is "defragging" a common substitute for "defragmenting"? I have never encountered it before.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#119

Post by newman314 » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 6:59 AM UTC

I'm sorry but this makes it sound like Google has come up with this magic way of beating fragmentation. It shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Contrast this with iOS upgrade path or what webOS had been doing. Seamless (for the most part) and a great UX.

Google is able to do this; see Chrome. What is strange is why they did not adopt the same strategy for Android as for Chrome.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#120

Post by charleslmunger » Tue, Sep 03, 2013, 7:05 AM UTC

SirPulse wrote: post #36

estel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, Google Play Services largely encompasses those features that were /always/ closed source in Android: maps, google+ and GCM. The Google applications that are core to the "standard" Android experience for most users have also always been closed source: Maps, Gmail, Google Calendar. There are still a lot of new features being introduced to the core Android APIs, with fragmentation issues being mitigat…

Not just that, Google is devoting its energy to develop the closed platform rather than developing android. The example you give are relatively minor updates with major new functionality now being developed outside of core android as the author points out.

Google also devotes energy to search, email, robot cars, internet balloons... the idea that having a closed source set of APIs for google products is stealing resources away from android is specious.