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Nokia acquired by Microsoft

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Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#181

Post by mbreese »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #87
mbreese wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia was well on its way down before Elop. It's not fair to pin that on him. But, it did seem pretty clear (even then) that his turnaround strategy involved a Microsoft purchase.

I don't think you can call something a "turnaround strategy" when the result is to cause the company's value to nosedive so far that the most viable means to salvage any of their investors' money is to divest them of their stock at a significant loss. From the Nokia stockholder's perspective, even if by some miracle the company were to subsequently prosper under Microsoft, by that point they no longer own it, so how…

I'm looking at it from a "stop the bleeding" point of view. When he took over, Nokia's stock was a little less around $9... down from it's high of almost $40 3 year earlier. Things had somewhat stabilized, but it was clear that Nokia was no longer going to be the top tier phone maker they had been for a decade. The strategy at that time was to ditch their Symbian and Linux platforms and jump 100% into the Windows Phone world. When they starting making only Windows smartphones (not including feature or dumb phones here), if things didn't improve, the obvious exit for Elop and the Nokia board was a Microsoft buyout (plan B). Now that they are trading at less than $4, it's pretty clear that something isn't working, so they need to just skip all the presences and just join Microsoft. I'm not sure how Microsoft's own transition is going to play in this, but I bet that hurried up the deal a bit.

So, the benefit for the shareholders is that they won't loose any more money than they already have. Microsoft has provided a decent backstop to stop the loss in value.

Plus, I haven't seen what Microsoft is actually buying... they may end up leaving the backend infrastructure products as a separate company, which would probably leave shareholders with some value.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#182

Post by noisy_boy »

kyro wrote: post #103
rayiner wrote: post #38

This is a great move. There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. With Windows Phone, Nokia and Microsoft at least have some hope of carving out a profitable stake in the market. Anecdotally, I'm very impressed with some of the new Lumias. I got a 620 to replace my stolen iPhone, and for $200 unlocked its phenomenal phone. The build quality makes a flag…

Agreed re: Samsung. With this new acquisition, Microsoft now has the ability to control the entire mobile phone experience -- something Apple has had huge success doing for years now. They'll have a high-quality platform to promote their app store and create an interesting ecosystem. This'll also create a distinct image in consumer's minds of what the Microsoft Phone is, similar to what we imagine when we think of th…

Microsoft has already done that end-to-end experience thing with Surface and that didn't turn out all that well. Windows phone has been critically acclaimed but that hasn't really made much dent on the IPhone/Android duopoly. And the relatively more successful windows phone devices aren't exactly sub-standard, infact they are quite high quality handsets made by the same manufacturer they just acquired. I'm doubtful how much of incremental improvement end-to-end will do this case.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#183

Post by lucb1e »

corresation wrote: post #144
wmboy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...they are not buying any patents. They are buying a 10-year license to Nokia's patents. That's basically the same isn't it? A patent can only remain active for 20 years, assuming most of the patents are several years old the majority of them will be pretty close to expiration in 10 years time. Note: I'm basing this on NZ patent law, but I assuming it's the same for any 1st world country...

That's basically the same isn't it? If Microsoft owned the patents they could enforce them against others. As a licensee, they simply protect themselves from Nokia enforcing it against them. As I said elsewhere in here, a Nokia with a big stack of patents and no hardware business is going to be an ugly thing for the industry: They can go gangbusters with patent assaults while having nothing for their victim's to atta…

> As a licensee, they simply protect themselves from Nokia enforcing it against them.

Hmm that sounds rather a lot like mafia. "Pay up or else, no matter whether we're owned by you."

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#184

Post by leaffig »

rayiner wrote: post #38

This is a great move. There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. With Windows Phone, Nokia and Microsoft at least have some hope of carving out a profitable stake in the market. Anecdotally, I'm very impressed with some of the new Lumias. I got a 620 to replace my stolen iPhone, and for $200 unlocked its phenomenal phone. The build quality makes a flag…

According to Bloomberg TV, Elop is returning to Microsoft, and Siilasmaa will serve as Nokia's interim CEO.

My guess is that Elop will become MS CEO, and is not a bad choice. In his interviews, he comes across as someone really smart and eloquent. He is one of the few CEOs in the world with both enterprise and consumer experience that a future MS CEO badly needs.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#185

Post by voltagex_ »

jpalomaki wrote: post #157
bsimpson wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that was ever likely with Elop at the helm, but Nokia is now out of the phone business until at least 2016.

I believe the press release only speaks about the brand. There does not seem to be any limitations for Nokia to enter into phone business. They would just need to have some other brand.

Maybe Jolla? :D

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#186

Post by StandardFuture »

macspoofing wrote: post #100
corresation wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. There are a lot of people who would have picked up the attractive, well built, well engineered Nokia devices if they had the platform of Android. The core problem with the "no money in Android" argument is that you can't choose not to compete with Android if you're in the smartphone game, which is pretty obvio…

>There are a lot of people who would have picked up the attractive, well built, well engineered Nokia devices if they had the platform of Android. Yeah maybe. There is no guarantee that the outcome would have been more favorable than being bought out by Microsoft. >Apple obviously is very much in a battle with Android ... Apple already lost to Android. Last count, Android had 80% of the market. There is zero chance o…

I'm sorry but moving this conversation towards being about Android and Android's "market share" is going off topic.

Microsoft clearly did not need to purchase Nokia to have a Windows Phone. That already exists (in partnership with multiple hardware vendors as well). So, market share of Mobile OSes is obviously not a (main) motivation behind this acquisition.

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#187

Post by guiambros »

macspoofing wrote: post #100
corresation wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no money in being an Android vendor except if you're Samsung and are totally vertically integrated. There are a lot of people who would have picked up the attractive, well built, well engineered Nokia devices if they had the platform of Android. The core problem with the "no money in Android" argument is that you can't choose not to compete with Android if you're in the smartphone game, which is pretty obvio…

>There are a lot of people who would have picked up the attractive, well built, well engineered Nokia devices if they had the platform of Android. Yeah maybe. There is no guarantee that the outcome would have been more favorable than being bought out by Microsoft. >Apple obviously is very much in a battle with Android ... Apple already lost to Android. Last count, Android had 80% of the market. There is zero chance o…

Market Share (of a free OS) Profit.

Plus, Market Share has little correlation with innovation or product quality. In fact, Innovator's Dilemma presents a compelling case of the exact opposite.

So, exactly which "war" are you referring to?

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#188

Post by test001only »

What would this mean for all the Nokia feature phones ? The latest Asha series was very good and selling pretty well atleast in India. How would this figure in MS strategy? Are they going to ditch it? That would be sad, because Nokia still makes phones that can withstand rough use.

On the other side would Nokia start manufacturing Laptop in future. I would really like Nokia design team to come up with a good Windows laptop!

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#189

Post by voltagex_ »

engrenage wrote: post #164
rst wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Google also owns a phone manufacturer (Motorola), also bought on the cheap after a few years of flagging sales. They've managed to keep relationships with other phone manufacturers going despite this, so far, but it is a similar problem. It's conceivable that some of the asian manufacturers might want a foot in each camp (so long as each looked viable at all) just for leverage to use against the other.

The other manufacturers don't have any alternative but to stay with Google despite Motorola and the tightening noose of Play Services.

Play Services is an absolute win for consumers. How is it a noose for manufacturers?

Re: Nokia acquired by Microsoft

#190

Post by null_ptr »

Anechoic wrote: post #113
throwawaykf02 wrote: post #104

There was some credible speculation back then that Google bought up Mototorola because its CEO threatened patent warfare with other Android manufacturers, something Google really did not want happening. Along similar lines, I speculate that Microsoft snapped up Nokia because they threatened starting an Android line of phones. I think there's a significant business lesson in here somewhere... Something along the lines…

I speculate that Microsoft snapped up Nokia because they threatened starting an Android line of phones. Remember that MS makes money off Android phones. MS also gets a nice patent bonus along [..] Apple admitted defeat in its patent fight with Nokia, something it hasn't done with anybody else Apple has (well had but I'd bet dollars to donuts it was renewed) a patent cross-licensing agreement with Microsoft so this co…

> Remember that MS makes money off Android phones.

Yes, but I assume not nearly as much as they'd make from the sale of their own phone system tied into their own application and media ecosystem. On average, this coupling would keep producing revenue long after the original sale.

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