I don't always seize my means of production. But when I do, I close it, stick it in a case, and put it in my backpack.
I don't always seize my means of production.
Why not?
Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
101–110 of 211 posts
Re: Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
#102There will be another distinguishing mark on programmers. Those that can write their own code and those that can fumble the pieces of other's code together to create a product.
There will be a lot more of the latter in the future than there has ever been.
Re: Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
#103As usual for HN, all of the most upvoted replies disagree with the article. Let me play devil's advocate and not disagree. Sure, the analogy isn't perfect, but what happens if we take the idea seriously? [1] Isn't it amazing, the lack of sacrifice necessary to make fat stacks of cash writing software? Even when law school was thought of as a golden ticket, it was a lottery, and to win, you had to sacrifice your perso…
Who the hell offered a fresh grad with only a BA in philosophy a development position with a salary of 180k!?
Re: Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have at least 10 friends who are in the technology industry but don't know how to program. Every single one of them have been saying for years how they want to learn. None of them have. It takes more sacrifice than you think to learn new skills.
It's not the sacrifice which you should worry about. These things don't happen quickly. Watch the curriculum of young children change. 10 years is all it will take.
You honestly think programming will become such a vital skill in everyone's job that it'll be taught along side reading and math to young children?
Even at the high school level students are forced to learn algebra and calculus but they don't really learn it. They memorize a few formula and apply them on tests but how many people can even take a simple derivative a few years after leaving school? Just cause someone took high school calc doesn't mean they're challenging for the jobs of mathematicians.
Re: Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Given the high dropout rate of anyone attempting to learn programming Its about the same as any other major. I googled around and found the 1999 cohort for Southeast Louisiana University (no particular reason, just google found it easily...) and they tracked freshmen's declared major and what they actually graduated with, if anything, after six years. In comp sci, it is true that 93% of self declared freshman comp s…
Those drop out rates are appalling!
For centuries, at least, 18 year old teens have had legendarily terrible judgement WRT dating, sex, illegal drug use, reckless driving, excess alcohol consumption, studying or lack thereof, clothing, dancing, music, sometimes doing all of the above at the same time. Seems a little too optimistic that out of all that screwing up, the one thing they'll get correct is school major selection.
Note that the graduation rates for "some" major are a very small multiple higher. This is solely "I'm 18 and I want a degree in XYZ" compared to six years later, "I'm 24 and I have a degree in XYZ". (Edited to emphasize the degree specific grad rate is constant across all majors, but some majors are more like to graduate with a degree in "anything" rather than drop out. If I remember the stats, failed art students generally just drop out, but failed physicists tend to go into engineering, insert infinite jokes here)
Re: Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
#106Why more programmers are no threat to programmers jobs? Because more programmers create more programs and more programs need more programmers (for updates and maintenance).
Re: Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
#107I have a few problems with this article. 1. The author points out all of the services which now exist, but says nothing of people and talent it takes to create and support such services. I think the tail for 'software enabled services' is rather longer than factory automation robots. 2. The author seems to have a somewhat narrow view of what developers actually do these days. Yes, it is true that people are not typic…
> Most of the software getting written for business today is highly specialized. Highly specialized software = no out of the box solution This is one part of the developer community that doesn't get publicized as much. The Startup web companies are not the only place where developers work, but they are the most competitive. I work for an Assessor's office as a developer, and we develop our management information syst…
The uncle of a company leader (CEO owner etc) owns a software company. Through a complex deal involving government grants, and a development deal with another company, the software if developed through them actually makes them money to build. Three of the developers are hired to the other company as consultants for a while, so they can explain how it all works. The rest of the developers are let go. Finally the original consultants are let go, at which point everything is outsourced to a team based out of Lithuania, India, and Brazil.
Re: Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stop patting yourself on the back. Seriously . Because obviously, no other job requires critical thinking and learning continually . These are "skills" that are in no way related to programming, and do not explain an inclination towards CS rather than any other science or the myriad of other academic disciplines. And even outside academia, not every job is just that of the "sheeple" who "mindlessly" "slug away" in th…
Arrogant, maybe, but there is at least a kernel of truth. I've done a lot of trades. I'm not a master level craftsman or anything, but I can build a house to code using just my current knowledge. The only thing I've never done is masonry, but I'm told it's not too tough. So that includes carpentry, electric, plumbing, fine wood working if you want things like molding and wainscoting, and more. I'm a very good but not…
>The only thing I've never done is masonry, but I'm told it's not too tough.
My wife paid a contractor to show her how to cap a foundation. He spent two hours with her, and we saved $50k+ by doing the rest of it ourselves. So no, not too hard.
We don't have enough of the rest of the skills you enumerate to think I could build an entire house to code, but your analysis is spot on.
As a game developer/embedded systems engineer, I also agree that there are tiers of development complexity. Even within these fields there are clear levels ability.
Some of the stuff I do on a daily basis is well beyond the typical HTML/JavaScript/PHP developer -- I spent years learning to be a good low-level developer and honing my skills, not just a few hours. And I've directly observed people who were plenty self-motivated who run into an "abstraction wall" that they can't get past; I've even spent hours with some people trying to come up with ways to help them understand, even though no one ever did that for me.
From the other side it's extremely clear that there are tiers of developer skill levels, and that even the bottom tier is out of reach to much of the population.
>It's not popular to say because we like to think everyone's a special snowflake with some predetermined number of "ability points," just allocated differently, but the bell curve is real and some people just can't do what we do.
I think the difference on "ability points" is that, by spending concentrated time on learning, you can actually earn extra ability points. Just like there aren't "muscle points" that are distributed differently between people: You exercise your muscles and they get stronger. "The brain is a muscle" isn't entirely a bogus concept.
Re: Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
#109It's already happening. As a freelancer, I often find people who want their "corporate" site built in WordPress for less money than what they would pay to a car mechanic for a similar amount of time worked. Sames goes for Magento and similar platforms.
You need a better class of client then! The persona you're describing are the intended audience of premium themes. They would probably never really get anywhere with their "new idea", if the barrier to entry was higher than $39 or $2 hosting a month. May I suggest hooking up with a larger agency, or corporate entity to help weed out the worst for you?
Re: Developers are the autoworkers of our generation
#110I'm not sure I recognize this privileged world you describe. Maybe you won't recognize mine.
It's 7pm. About half the team is in the office with me (although all the people managers have gone home). We will be here a while.
No one in the room earns more than 10% more than the UK median salary. The highest paid is a front end guy who sits to my right. The two behind me earn less than the median, and live with parents. They have been writing software for 3 years. On external contracts, the customer pays about double what they get paid, 150 a day. Given that rate also needs to support sales and admin, they could get a little more but not a huge amount. Sales tell me our day rates are too high, and it's costing work.
Other companies in our industry (defence contracting) pay a bit more, but not a huge amount. I got offered about 50% more to work on consumer electronics last month, but that is still 50% more than median, not 800%.
I think what you describe has already happened.
Edit - I think this is overly negative. Programming remains a really nice job. You solve interesting problems, you work in a comfortable office, and the culture is nice (people usually treat eachother well). It's just not paid that well now.