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New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

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Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#81

Post by VladRussian2 »

mturmon wrote: post #77
bdhe wrote: post #71

This is as good a thread as any to perhaps start a discussion on something that's been on my mind ever since I learnt about the NSA's penchant for hiring mathematicians and cryptographers. How would you reasonably estimate the NSA's academic prowess when it comes to crypto/codebreaking? How does this compare to the state-of-the-art in academia? I am less interested (but definitely so) in knowing or estimating more ab…

I think it's an excellent question. The "intelligence community" sponsors a lot of math and fundamental physics work in academia and the national labs. The grants are laundered through an intermediary, so you don't know who and in what agency is interested in the work. I think of that visible side as one way for them to keep their foot in the door, to check the pace of advances on the unclassified side. But you're re…

>And let's face it, the subject matter is really cool. There's a reason that mathematicians throughout history have been interested in coding. Now imagine someone paying them to do it.

lets not forget that having friends in government intelligence (people in the shadow with strong soft powers) may be just helpful ...

Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#82

Post by mpyne »

mrleinad wrote: post #27
sandstrom wrote: post #17

I wonder why do newspapers insist on labelling Snowden a 'leaker'. Why not 'whistleblower', or 'privacy advocate'?

In my country is worse. The media call him a mole.

Well, he admitted to as much. I think the only reason they don't call him a 'mole' in the U.S. is that he isn't still there and that is identity is known.

Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#83

Post by rbanffy »

smsm42 wrote: post #79

I wonder what is top secret there? Those things look quite mundane to me and I don't really understand how revealing, for example, that $1 bn is spent on "mission ground stations" would hurt national security. Revealing more deep details - maybe, I can see it, but on this level it doesn't look like it should be secret at the first place.

Intelligence is like this. You piece together seemingly random information from several sources. A tells he ate pasta on Wednesday and you know he had dinner with B because B withdrew money from an ATM next to an Italian restaurant before B's partner phoned B, who, after two hours, bought a bag of diapers on a convenience store on the route between the said restaurant and B's home.

Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#84

Post by rbanffy »

marshray wrote: post #49
zachrose wrote: post #15

Mostly I'm surprised at the pay distribution on page 9 of the included document. GS pay tops out around $117k. Is that how much we're paying for top level cryptography research? Do contractors like Snowden get to make $200k because that's just what their consulting firm bills for?

My understanding is that huge pay increases are in fact the primary motivation behind the shift to these quasi-private sector contracting arrangements. It's basically an accounting scheme to either "retain the brightest", or to defraud the taxpayers, depending on how you look at it.

It's not either/or. It can be both.

Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#85

Post by sillysaurus2 »

I think it's important to remember the original motive for leaking.

The NSA was conducting operations which many people feel are out of line with the way the American government should operate. Hence, Snowden is generally viewed as a hero rather than a villain.

Even if it was morally justified to leak PRISM and XKeyScore, leaking a detailed breakdown of the budget for the entire intelligence arm of the American government seems dubious. Now every other country knows the lower bound of how much money America invests into intelligence. This document could very well be used as a justification in other countries to convince their politicians to dramatically increase their budget devoted to cyber ops / intelligence.

If you feel the PRISM and XKeyscore leaks were a good thing, you may want to consider whether this latest leak shares the same merits. It seems a difference in kind.

Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#86

Post by dnautics »

grandalf wrote: post #33
dnautics wrote: post #13

What if the "groundbreaking" crypto-cracking was that the NSA discovered you could trick people into cracking "bountied" SHA-256 hashes in a massively parallel operation?

I think you might be joking but I was actually thinking about this the other day and wondering if it might be plausible.

mostly joking. Remember, in Japanese, surnames come first: "Nakamoto SAtoshi"

Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#87

Post by damarquis »

ktsmith wrote: post #32
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's really hard to assume that - that's assuming true mathematical leaps and invention. Admittedly if you put enough cryptographers on the payroll they may form their own university, but they still need the air of their peers on the outside. Imagine a cosmologist today transported 30 years back and asked to attend conferences - they would gain no inspiration. I think we put too much emphasis on the single data p…

There are multiple data points suggesting the NSA is/was ahead of public researchers. There's the sbox changes to DES in the 70's when differential cryptanalysis wasn't publicly discovered till the 80's. The revisions between SHA-0 and SHA-1 (the attack the changes prevent weren't found for at least 5 years). The Dual EC DRBG random number generator they supplied to NIST that many people suspect of being compromisabl…

"..that many people suspect of being compromisable by NSA etc."

If it was a backdoor you certainly can't count it among the NSAs successes. It is never used.

Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#88

Post by dnautics »

gojomo wrote: post #2

I think observers have long assumed NSA is some number of years ahead – say, 2-30 years ahead – of openly published results in cryptanalysis and cryptosystem vulnerabilities.

I remember someone here commenting that the NSA over time is becoming like any other gov't org - beholden to "other factors", i.e. political correctness, which basically amount to making their number theory recruits mediocre.

I would not be surprised if the NSA had lost its advantage. In bureaucratic systems like this, where the target (advanced math) is best achieved by exorbitantly intelligent people getting lucky - the weight of a large number of mediocres can wind up becoming a drag instead of an asset.

Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#89

Post by betterunix »

smsm42 wrote: post #79

I wonder what is top secret there? Those things look quite mundane to me and I don't really understand how revealing, for example, that $1 bn is spent on "mission ground stations" would hurt national security. Revealing more deep details - maybe, I can see it, but on this level it doesn't look like it should be secret at the first place.

You should read The Art of War:

When we are able to attack, we must appear unable...

The amount of money you spend on one area of intelligence work versus some other area speaks volumes about your plans, priorities, capabilities, and so forth.

Re: New Snowden Leak Reports 'Groundbreaking' NSA Crypto-Cracking

#90

Post by betterunix »

powertower wrote: post #73

It's one thing to leak documents about the NSA being in a grey area in regards to US citizens rights. But this last month or so all the articles I see here are about Snowden trying to actively 1) attempt to hurt the USA and 2) attempt to embarrass the USA. I don't get it? What is he thinking he is doing?

What makes you think Snowden is doing anything at this point? What makes you think he is still in contact with reporters? He probably hastily sent them a bunch of documents when he was worried that he would be sent back the USA, and now the journalists are deciding what will be published.
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