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Defeated

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Re: Defeated

#381

Post by Thrymr »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #377
laureny wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Traveling is a right, regardless of what power any government exerts to claim otherwise. A right in the US is what's defined in the Constitution. Flying is not one.

Here's a pretty important and clear amendment: > The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. The Constitution defines what the government can do, not what the people can do.

And the one before it: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Re: Defeated

#382

Post by thaumaturgy »

javert wrote: post #308
rbanffy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is an extremely simple solution: leave. Actually, it's not a solution. If everyone who questions such ineffective and intrusive procedures leave, the ones who imposed them on your fellow citizens win. It's not my country, but I like it a lot. And it deeply saddens me to see what is happening to it.

Actually, if we could get 50% of all engineers and technophiles to flee the US, the insanity would have to stop. (How would they continue to pay for it?) May not be a terrible strategy going forward if the US starts looking like an end-stage Weimer Republic, especially since people will have to flee anyway.

> Actually, if we could get 50% of all engineers and technophiles to flee the US, the insanity would have to stop.

On the contrary, I'd expect it to worsen. Engineers and technophiles are some of the most outspoken groups opposed to the surveillance state and other abuses of power, especially technological ones. They're also the groups most likely to invent technological workarounds to abuses of power.

> How would they continue to pay for it?

The same way it's being paid for now: massive debt.

Re: Defeated

#383

Post by ilyanep »

moheeb wrote: post #367
ilyanep wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like yours make my blood boil. > flying is a privilege, not a right Is taking a train a privilege, not a right? Driving? A bus? Would you be okay with TSA-like screening procedures before any such sort of transportation? What makes flying so special? People have bombed trains, cars, busses, etc before too. > "The terrorists have won" because you had to go through a machine? I think it's time for the OP to st…

Driving actually is a privilege. Hence the reason it can be taken away from you due to misconduct. People in the US agree with this practice. Every driver in the US has to pass a driving test in order to be legally allowed on the road. Is air travel somehow different? Maybe all you folks should be boiling your blood over the fact that you have to prove to the government you're capable of driving!

You're right, driving was a bad example. That being said, it's silly to continue adding modes of transport to things that are "privileges, not rights" until people really have no real and significant freedom of movement. Perhaps my example should have been "walking around outside your house".

Re: Defeated

#384

Post by javert »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #382
javert wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, if we could get 50% of all engineers and technophiles to flee the US, the insanity would have to stop. (How would they continue to pay for it?) May not be a terrible strategy going forward if the US starts looking like an end-stage Weimer Republic, especially since people will have to flee anyway.

> Actually, if we could get 50% of all engineers and technophiles to flee the US, the insanity would have to stop. On the contrary, I'd expect it to worsen. Engineers and technophiles are some of the most outspoken groups opposed to the surveillance state and other abuses of power, especially technological ones. They're also the groups most likely to invent technological workarounds to abuses of power. > How would th…

> Engineers and technophiles are some of the most outspoken groups opposed to the surveillance state and other abuses of power

Yes, but it doesn't seem to me like they have any impact whatsoever. Maybe I'm incorrect, though.

> The same way it's being paid for now: massive debt.

If the US economy were to crash (which it would if 50% of STEM workers leave, I think), I'm not sure if US debt would be worth anything.

More generally speaking, though, the US military and intelligence system is very highly dependent on highly skilled STEM workers. I suspect that there is already a labor shortage affecting them, and I suspect that, via their shenanigans, they are running a serious risk of seriously crippling their capabilities in the upcoming decades.

Among my colleagues in grad school, I was one of minority that was seriously willing to consider work in the military sector as a career, and now even I'm not.

Re: Defeated

#385

Post by karmel »

If you need some motivation, consider: originally, I opted out for the same privacy concerns you cite. However, in the last couple of years, I have started wearing a medical device that has not been rated to pass through the backscatter machines. So now I opt-out because of both choice and necessity. If all the good people choosing to opt-out stop doing so, it will be an even bigger headache every time someone with a medical device is forced to opt-out-- there will be no staff assigned to the screens, no stable protocol, etc. So opt out! If not for your sake or the sake of American values, for the sake of those of us with chronic diseases that don't play nicely with imaging machines!

Re: Defeated

#386

Post by varjag »

honzzz wrote: post #220
varjag wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good deal of Eastern Europe is still quite homophobic and xenophobic, even if there are no actual discrimination laws in place.

Which part of Eastern Europe? I don't know the whole Eastern Europe really well but speaking for the Czech Republic (where I was born) I would say exactly the opposite is true at least when we are talking about tolerance to homosexuality... which might be related to the fact that unlike in the US or UK, religion has practically no influence here. I base this mostly on what I see around me but I just tried to quickly…

I'd say people in Eastern Europe are quite used to despising Jews. Also, if you are black or Hindu or Pakistani in Czech or Poland, you will notice.

Homophobes, well, not sure how it's in Czech Republic, but say Poland makes Bible Belt look like a bunch of agnostic wusses.

Re: Defeated

#387

Post by varjag »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #217
varjag wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good deal of Eastern Europe is still quite homophobic and xenophobic, even if there are no actual discrimination laws in place.

true. So is the rest of the world. We are just lacking in the political correctness department.

..and Russians are just putting what you are lacking into a law.

Re: Defeated

#388

Post by Zigurd »

minimax wrote: post #274
jacques_chester wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to short manufacturers of midrange jets, like Embraer.

Not really though. I regularly travel 1000 - 1500 km on US domestic flights for business on Embraers and CRJs. It's way too long a trip to do by car and high speed passenger rail isn't really a thing that exists here in the US.

Agreed. I would thing that regional jets would become more prevalent on more routes if air travel were to decline.

Re: Defeated

#389

Post by lightyrs »

alan_cx wrote: post #321
fixxer wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA is going there. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

Air travel locked down by armed guards, searching and demanding identity, now trains. What's next, buses? Then what, UK levels of CCTV, face recognition motorway(freeway) cameras? Oh yeah, we Brits have those. What is the limit here, can we expect check points on roads? Add to that comprehensive, industrial slurping of all electronic data and metadata. Almost forgot, a mostly compliant and controlled media and a poli…

Even Godwin himself said that his law has been misinterpreted.

http://reason.com/archives/2005/07/14/hands-off-hitler

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