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Defeated

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Re: Defeated

#371

Post by pinaceae »

3pt14159 wrote: post #348
pinaceae wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh boy, would you be surprised about NL and CH. you don't like the draft in the US, which never gets executed? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Switzerland "Compulsory military service concerns all male Swiss citizens, with women serving voluntarily. Males usually receive initial orders at the age of 18 for military conscription eligibility screening. About two-thirds of young Swiss men are found suitable for…

I have seen more of the world than you would guess, and there is this FUD all over the place. I was on the fence about including Switzerland, but their banking law and gun law is much more sane than the US. The draft in the states was used in Vietnam. Opening a business in ALL of Europe is hard (especially France) but in most of the countries I listed it is easy. Stop grouping all of Europe into one big thing. Biomet…

the draft was used in Vietnam, and since then? not like the US ran out of wars. what the hell are you trying to prove?

and for the record, I am European, Austrian in fact.

and the US is now requiring it's own citizens to use the biometric passport? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#Countries_us...

now how about that.

"NL Passports issued from 21 September 2009 include fingerprints. Dutch identity cards are lookalike versions of the holder's page of the passport and contain the same biometric information."

You're misinformed and wrong, but you'll never admit it. Whatever.

Re: Defeated

#372

Post by a-priori »

rdl wrote: post #148

I opt out mostly to make it as difficult for the screener as possible, not because I think it's particularly less of a violation of my privacy to get my nuts felt up vs. irradiated with low power mm wave. (if there were a "you can have a copy of your own scan" machine, I'd probably voluntarily go through mm wave for fun). If people opt out, it 1) ties up a TSA agent 2) makes a TSA agent do something moderately unplea…

I avoid travel to the US where possible. But when I do I opt out of their scanners.

I figure that if my privacy is going to be violated anyway to enter the States, at least I want to look the person in the eye while they do it.

Re: Defeated

#373

Post by adammil »

brightsize wrote: post #275
einhverfr wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd also add that the three worst travel experiences I've ever had were: immigration at Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport, anything at all London-Heathrow, immigration at Toronto Pearson. Funny, my only complaint about Toronto was that the immigration officials tried hard enough to avoid charging me the work permit fee that it wasted a bunch of our time. Best experiences though have been Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. W…

I was surprised that just recently on an in-state flight from Spokane to Sea-tac and back, I did not get scanned at all, I only got the metal detector treatment. I had thought that the gawk-at-you-naked scanners were the default everywhere no matter where you were traveling. I was surprised to find that leaving Tegel in Berlin was easy as can be, short lines, quick trip through the metal detector. The entry process a…

Sometimes they randomly open and close security lines between scanners and metal detectors. To avoid the hassle, I pick the lines that are obviously headed to a metal detector. When I opt out, I do it firmly but politely, and never had anyone say something except one time a TSA man said "You know this isn't dangerous radiation, right?" I just said "It doesn't matter. I'm opting out." I always take the pat-down in public and they vary a lot in quality.

Re: Defeated

#374

Post by siculars »

I always opt-out. And I often exchange some words with the agent. When they ask if I would like to do this in private I say no thanks, I like the public knowing that their tax dollars are at work. The officers usually chuckle and agree. Most of them don't like doing the pat down. One once went on about the lack of union benefits. It's often an interesting experience.

Re: Defeated

#375

Post by ohazi »

I wrote this last night as a way to vent some of my frustration and was really floored by the responses I received in the morning. These solo protests are small battles, and It's easy to get discouraged when the victories feel so insignificant. But as many people pointed out, the losses can also be small (especially when compared to some of the truly horrifying TSA stories we come across every now and then).

For me at least, being tired and stressed can really add to the feeling of hopelessness and defeat, but a few words of encouragement from strangers can be immensely empowering. I can't say for certain that I'll be up for another small battle next time, but I'll certainly consider it.

To all who added to the discussion or offered support, your words have not fallen upon deaf ears. Thank you.

Re: Defeated

#376

Post by angersock »

rayiner wrote: post #338
angersock wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metal detectors (as memory serves) merely detect a change in inductance due to objects having a metallic composition. It's a purely passive system. By contrast, the full-body scanners bombard you with very mild radiation and capture results, giving the operator a view of your body and whatever you have on your person. It's a good deal more invasive.

Hint: you're constantly bombarded by mild radiation which bounces off you and gives operators a view of your body and what you have on your person. And the current scanners don't give an image, just a "OK" or an outline with a location to check.

My background is engineering--believe me, I chose the "mild" qualifier to try and avoid "oh noes teh evul radiationz" kneejerk reaction tend to have. It's unfortunate there isn't a less emotionally-charged word to use to describe it.

As for the rest, well, just because the operator doesn't see it doesn't mean the image isn't still being taken/saved/consumed down the road.

Re: Defeated

#377

Post by thatswrong0 »

laureny wrote: post #363
ferdo wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> flying is a privilege, not a right The government began to make claims about traveling being a "privilege" in the 20th century. The Soviet government used to claim the same thing, so perhaps the US government took a lesson from them. Traveling is a right, regardless of what power any government exerts to claim otherwise.

> Traveling is a right, regardless of what power any government exerts to claim otherwise. A right in the US is what's defined in the Constitution. Flying is not one.

Here's a pretty important and clear amendment:

> The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The Constitution defines what the government can do, not what the people can do.

Re: Defeated

#378

Post by thaumaturgy »

alan_cx wrote: post #321
fixxer wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA is going there. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyo...

Air travel locked down by armed guards, searching and demanding identity, now trains. What's next, buses? Then what, UK levels of CCTV, face recognition motorway(freeway) cameras? Oh yeah, we Brits have those. What is the limit here, can we expect check points on roads? Add to that comprehensive, industrial slurping of all electronic data and metadata. Almost forgot, a mostly compliant and controlled media and a poli…

> What's next, buses?

http://rt.com/usa/tsa-bus-safe-houston-403/

> What is the limit here, can we expect check points on roads?

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_...

Re: Defeated

#379

Post by Thrymr »

laureny wrote: post #355
ilyanep wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like yours make my blood boil. > flying is a privilege, not a right Is taking a train a privilege, not a right? Driving? A bus? Would you be okay with TSA-like screening procedures before any such sort of transportation? What makes flying so special? People have bombed trains, cars, busses, etc before too. > "The terrorists have won" because you had to go through a machine? I think it's time for the OP to st…

> Is taking a train a privilege, not a right? Driving? A bus? Yes to all. If you're not quite sure how to determine if something is a privilege, just see if it's mentioned in the Constitution. For example, the "pursuit of happiness" is a US right. Driving a car is not (you need to get a license and that license can be revoked). Just because you grew up with such conveniences doesn't make them a privilege, although th…

See especially the 9th amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Re: Defeated

#380

Post by pvdm »

eloisius wrote: post #135

You probably put to much stock in the whole "I've never been through the imaging machines" bit. It's not about remaining opt-out puritan or something. Fight when you can. I hope op reads this, buried in all the other comments. Please, for the sake of everyone, dust yourself off and opt out again. It doesn't matter if you do it every time. I opt out every time I can, but there have been plenty of times when I don't. T…

Resist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg

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