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Confessions of a failed indie developer

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Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#31

Post by icebraining »

unz wrote: post #28
icebraining wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Art for art's sake is great, but it doesn't mean artists should get a free pass to do whatever they want and the rest of us digging coal mines and waiting tables give them money for art we don't like. And where has anyone said we should? I didn't see OP demanding public subsidies. You're just attacking a dumb strawman.

His wife, the crowdfund backers, and the net loss to society by him taking himself out of productive business. Those are not 'dumb strawmans'. And I wasn't talking about him in that comment, but the various starving artists who usually free ride on spouse/family/friends/welfare.

I'll give you the crowdfund backers, since they haven't got what they expected, but who the hell are you to decided what he or his wife should spend their money and time on? Should we start judging you for the useful stuff you could be doing with the time you're wasting on HN, not only yours but others', by reading your posts?

At least he probably learned useful skills building his game. What do you have to show for the time spent here?

Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#32

Post by corresation »

unz wrote: post #30
corresation wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

open your eyes to the multitude of problems that exist out there, in the REAL WORLD, and fix those? I had originally thought you were going to comment on the financial risks and unlikely returns of indie development, but instead it sounds like you're morally judging? Most of the developers who frequent HN are not working on "real problems".

They're the same thing, you'll only get paid if you solve real problems (though that's not really true, a lot of people get paid by stealing - most of the finance industry, many government employees, and much of senior management in industry).

By that measure, isn't providing entertainment/relaxation a real problem? I don't see why it is any less credible.

Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#33

Post by JabavuAdams »

zanny wrote: post #21

As a 21 year old, I don't see how you could try to go indie with a family and mortgage. I'm in a position where I could now (couchsurf my family until my thing is ready and have $0 expenses) but I just look out at a sea of mediocre indies with "fresh" ideas that are just respins on the same old, often in the form of some 2d platformer with sprites or on Unity. That just isn't compelling to me, but that is a personal…

Re: Unity

I've often heard the "Unity look" criticized, but there is no Unity look. That's just a failure of art direction. I.e. any engine that supports shaders well doesn't have a particular look.

Because Unity and UDK are such time-savers, they're used in a lot of student projects. Often these have very low production values that bias people against these engines.

A good analogy is particle systems. The fundamental technology hasn't changed in 20 years. However the final look is extremely sensitive to iteration and art direction.

Having good artists is much more important than having good tech, much as it pains me to admit it.

Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#34

Post by GuiA »

corresation wrote: post #25
zanny wrote: post #21

As a 21 year old, I don't see how you could try to go indie with a family and mortgage. I'm in a position where I could now (couchsurf my family until my thing is ready and have $0 expenses) but I just look out at a sea of mediocre indies with "fresh" ideas that are just respins on the same old, often in the form of some 2d platformer with sprites or on Unity. That just isn't compelling to me, but that is a personal…

As a 21 year old, I don't see how you could try to go indie with a family and mortgage. As a seasoned developer with a family and mortgage, I don't see how you could go indie as a 21 year old. Your probability of achieving absolutely nothing approaches 100% (and the end result may be career damage that will carry through for the rest of your professional life). This story really has nothing to do with the fact that t…

> and the end result may be career damage that will carry through for the rest of your professional life

I agree with the rest of your post, but this is just silly.

Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#35

Post by unz »

corresation wrote: post #32
unz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're the same thing, you'll only get paid if you solve real problems (though that's not really true, a lot of people get paid by stealing - most of the finance industry, many government employees, and much of senior management in industry).

By that measure, isn't providing entertainment/relaxation a real problem? I don't see why it is any less credible.

Yeah, if you're getting paid to create it. If you're a starving artist, then society doesn't pay you because you're not solving a real problem.

Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#36

Post by unz »

icebraining wrote: post #31
unz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His wife, the crowdfund backers, and the net loss to society by him taking himself out of productive business. Those are not 'dumb strawmans'. And I wasn't talking about him in that comment, but the various starving artists who usually free ride on spouse/family/friends/welfare.

I'll give you the crowdfund backers, since they haven't got what they expected, but who the hell are you to decided what he or his wife should spend their money and time on? Should we start judging you for the useful stuff you could be doing with the time you're wasting on HN, not only yours but others', by reading your posts? At least he probably learned useful skills building his game. What do you have to show for…

Educating people like you!

If I can knock some sense into people like you, you might be more productive and create something that I might benefit from.

Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#37

Post by corresation »

GuiA wrote: post #34
corresation wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a 21 year old, I don't see how you could try to go indie with a family and mortgage. As a seasoned developer with a family and mortgage, I don't see how you could go indie as a 21 year old. Your probability of achieving absolutely nothing approaches 100% (and the end result may be career damage that will carry through for the rest of your professional life). This story really has nothing to do with the fact that t…

> and the end result may be career damage that will carry through for the rest of your professional life I agree with the rest of your post, but this is just silly.

It was intentionally silly and exaggerated, because every "if you're established you can no longer take risks" claim is predicated on the idea that the only outcome of that risky venture is full success, or complete failure that leads to broken families and a drunken ex-developer living under a bridge.

Yet often people just...get a job again (such as in this story). Exactly as the non-established person does. It really isn't that much of a difference. Life goes on.

Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#38

Post by pjungwir »

I really enjoyed and appreciated this article. So many harsh comments! Yes, what he did was foolish, but thank god for foolishness. And these things are easier to see from outside and after the fact than when you're following a dream.

I've had a lifelong dream of building my own game, and I'll be sad if I die without trying. I'm way less prepared than the author. I've done web dev for 15 years. My last game was an ASCII roguelike in GW BASIC. I'm almost done reading Game Engine Architecture by Jason Gregory, and building my own engine sounds like a blast---but also like a 20 year project. Fortunately my dream game is more like an old 2-D Zelda 1 or 3. Still, it's tempting to build even that with 3-D techniques. . . .

The big lesson I'd apply to myself is to build something modest. That seems even more true given my lack of experience, although I'm not sure I'll listen.

I guess the difference between the author and myself is that I fortunately don't have the expertise to think of game making as anything other than a creative hobby.

Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#39

Post by primaryobjects »

pseudometa wrote: post #20

Are there any more stories like this of failed indie devleoper retrospectives?

I say this with humor, but this weekend, I took part in an indie 48-hour game-jam contest. I created the game, Fire Starter http://dummysoftware.com/games/firestarter

Created it with HTML5, targeting the desktop, rather than mobile. Didn't win, but had a lot of fun. That's kinda like the op's story compressed into a time-span of a few hours, sort of.

Btw, I recommend game-jams to anyone interested in indie game development. It forces you to create something quick, take decisive actions, and finish the game.

Re: Confessions of a failed indie developer

#40

Post by tieTYT »

"When I say I started building a game, this isn’t strictly true – what I actually built was a graphics engine."

This is really surprising to me. If you google for how to make your own game, the first thing you see is usually something telling you NOT to do this. I don't understand how someone in the gaming industry for 13 years could miss this advice.

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