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Defeated

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Re: Defeated

#81

Post by stdbrouw »

tzaman wrote: post #65

This is the second time in a week I have read about people refusing to go through security scanners, and then complaining about being treated differently . You should really put yourselves into security guards' skins here; What if you were him/her? You'd observe millions of people do the same stuff day in, day out, and out of those million, a small percent would refuse to do what's required of everyone - pass the sta…

They are not refusing. They are opting out of an optional procedure. If you think this is a smart-alecky comment, realize that it's not mine, it's the TSA's.

Re: Defeated

#83

Post by epsylon »

> that their development and procurement was a particularly depressing example of political corruption

I'd like to hear more about this.

Re: Defeated

#84

Post by reaganite »

Just sign up for Global Enrollment (GOES) and you automatically get TSA Pre and don't have to go thru the regular security lines: no Millimeter back scatter scanner, no taking off your shoes or taking your laptop out of your bag. Australia, the Netherlands and Canada have similar programs and at present all recognize each others program enrollees, so it also gets you thru Customs in those countries faster too.

https://goes-app.cbp.dhs.gov/main/goes

Re: Defeated

#85

Post by speeder »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #57
Joeboy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further to that, once you can no longer travel in your own country without being strip searched it means, as the article puts it, that the terrorists have won. It's a test and a defense of freedom.

The terrorists don't win if people in America lose rights. Wtf? Terrorists win if they don't turn into terrorists in the first place but live normal happy lives in their countries, maintaining a mild disdain for the decadent west while admiring the nice parts, like freedom and wealth. The radicalization surely has many roots, one of them being real and imagined pressure from the West. I propose looking into that aspe…

I am from another place that had problems with US, and I always believed US is intentionally evil, and it don't proved otherwise yet.

It behaves like a school bully, that protect its interests by beating other kids until they hand their lunch over, and when someone ask why, he says he was hungry.

Re: Defeated

#86

Post by honzzz »

jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

This might sound really weird but I actually believe that for people who like freedom post-communist countries that were NOT part of Soviet Union can be quite good place to live right now.

I had previously spent 7 months in the US and I had lived in UK for 2.5 years and now I live in the Czech Republic. I guess this is very subjective but I believe that for example this country currently offers way more freedom than the "land of free" or UK. It has its downsides but not as many as an average citizen of western country would probably think. You could live pretty comfortable "nice apartment, designer clothes and BMW" life in Prague if you wish so (not that I do). It's not how Americans usually imagine Eastern Europe and because of the past people are more sensitive about government intrusion and the government is weak - do not conflate Eastern Europe with Russia with that weird authoritarian shit (the anti-gay law etc.) - this is completely different world here.

Just my $0.02 - it's about personal priorities. And it still feels weird just saying this... given what I thought 25 years ago.

EDIT: I should not have said 'countries that were NOT part of Soviet Union' - certainly not all of them, for example I hear really nice things about Estonia and I am sure that not all ex-Soviet countries are like Russia.

Re: Defeated

#87

Post by aestra »

prawn wrote: post #39

The terrorists have won. I don't think the terrorists won, they just provided the push. The commercial interests and their lobbyists have won. And by that, I mean they continue to win.

No, the author is correct. The terrorist have won.

ter·ror·ism [ter-uh-riz-uhm] noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. 2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

co·erce [koh-urs] verb (used with object), co·erced, co·erc·ing. 1. to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition: They coerced him into signing the document. 2. to bring about through the use of force or other forms of compulsion; exact: to coerce obedience. 3. to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.: The state is based on successfully coercing the individual.

Re: Defeated

#88

Post by annnnd »

VMG wrote: post #59
raverbashing wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the general spirit of your post, however: Amsterdam Schipol has (a lot of) scanning machines as well. Germany has more freedom in certain areas and less freedom in others. (you can't take your empty bottles to the recycling bins on Sunday for example)

of all the things bothering me about Germany, this is not one of them. More the fact that nearly all shops close at 8pm and everything is closed on sunday.

This also means that if you work in a shop you can go home shortly after 8pm and you have a free Sunday. The difference here is that Germans (arguably) respect the time off-work more.

Re: Defeated

#89

Post by mosburger »

jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

"Extremely simple?"

There's lots of reasons it isn't so simple for people.

1) Barriers to work and emigration

2) Language barriers - I know that learning a new language isn't impossible (I know a little Spanish but I'd hardly call myself fluent), but I speak only English fluently, which limits me to a handful of nations, many of which are nearly as bad as the United States (hey UK, how are those surveillance cameras?)

3) A lot of us have family support systems that aren't easy to give up - I happen to know who you are, and happen to know that the country to which you moved didn't have that problem. ;)

I know it's not impossible - I follow /r/IWantOut over on Reddit because I have my own fantasies about leaving the U.S. and maybe moving to a Spanish-speaking country with liberal emigration policies (perhaps Uruguay?). But it's not something I feel like I can put my family through at this time - it's definitely not what I'd call "extremely simple."

Re: Defeated

#90

Post by prof_hobart »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #43
prawn wrote: post #39

The terrorists have won. I don't think the terrorists won, they just provided the push. The commercial interests and their lobbyists have won. And by that, I mean they continue to win.

I don't think airport security and avoiding bombs on planes is an entirely "commercial" interest.

Other forms of transport, such as trains, don't have even a tiny fraction of the level of security that planes have, and if anything are a more effective terror target than a bomb on a plane (I would say that the terrorists got far more publicity out of the 7/7 bombings in London than they did out of Lockerbie) - I strolled around two of the busiest stations in London for a couple of hours on Saturday, and saw a single sniffer dog occasionally checking out someone's bag, and even that was far more than I normally see.

Yet we don't see train bombs on a regular basis.

So why would planes be vastly different if the level of security was ramped down?

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