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Defeated

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Re: Defeated

#61

Post by amirmc »

jballanc wrote: post #32

There is an extremely simple solution: leave. I've not lived in the US for almost two years now. I've only had to travel back twice in that time. Meanwhile, in the same time I've visited France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Germany multiple times. None of those travel experiences were nearly as unpleasant or stressful as my two trips to the US. Furthermore, the technology communities that are growing up in these pla…

Airports are only a symptom of a wider problem and I see this as running away. Much like when a bear is chasing you, you only have to be faster than those around you. Eventually the bear will chase you again and you'll be the only one left. To make that a little more concrete, you can only keep moving while there are viable places to move to. Sure, that's probably fine for our lifetimes but we're handing on a legacy where we refuse to fight for anything. When these machines and processes are everywhere they become even harder to fight against.

Edit: Also, moving when you have family (partner, kids), becomes even more complex and stressful. It's simply not a viable option for many.

Re: Defeated

#62

Post by biff »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #46
xpaulbettsx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the following: if that identical machine were in a hospital, it would have been required to go through years of clinical trials to ensure its safety over the long term. The machines they are using are medical equipment. However, because it's in an airport, none of this has happened . Maybe it is safe. Maybe it isn't. It is unproven .

Is the radiation worse than a long-distance flight?

Doesn't help the cause if you're already doing a long-distance flight...

Re: Defeated

#63

Post by reginaldjcooper »

cbr wrote: post #48
flyt wrote: post #3

When you go into the millimeter-wave machine and the TSA employee asks you to raise your arms, tell them that you can't, but don't elaborate (and they usually won't ask why). Every time I've done this they let me go through the regular metal detector with no argument or subsequent pat downs or screening.

If a lot of able-bodied people start doing this then the TSA may start giving people who actually can't raise their arms a hard time.

I would love to see the resulting class action lawsuit from that.

Re: Defeated

#64

Post by gfodor »

Is this even allowed? I had the understanding that once you opt-out, you either have to get the pat down, or you have to leave the airport. Altering your decision and going through the scanner I thought was against protocol, much like when you enter the security line you have to go through security or leave the airport.

Either way you should continue to opt-out despite this bad experience. I always opt-out unless I am with my wife and time is tight, I don't want to be responsible for us missing our flight if the trip is important enough to her. (I've gone through only once or twice.)

In general, if all it takes for an American who is obviously already in the outlier group of people who care about civil liberties to be "defeated" is a half hour of (largely unwarranted) stress about a laptop, we are well and truly screwed. I opt-out because it makes the experience just as uncomfortable for the TSA as it is for me, raising awareness, unlike the scan which is only uncomfortable for me. You should too. Nobody is going to steal or damage your laptop, and either way if that's the price you have to pay to maintain little dignity and perform openly visible, public, safe civil disobedience of a horribly unconstitutional policy it's well worth it in my book.

Re: Defeated

#65

Post by tzaman »

This is the second time in a week I have read about people refusing to go through security scanners, and then complaining about being treated differently.

You should really put yourselves into security guards' skins here; What if you were him/her? You'd observe millions of people do the same stuff day in, day out, and out of those million, a small percent would refuse to do what's required of everyone - pass the standard security. If you ask me, I'd be suspicious too. And probably annoyed why there have to be a few of smartasses who can't follow standard procedure.

Now, before I hear you complain about privacy, you really need to wake up. If you leave in a city, you're being recorded on pretty much every step, and you still go to the bank, for example, and drive your car. And use Facebook. Or whatever. If you want real privacy, move to Sibiria. Or Zimbabwe.

And for those who think these machines are medically dangerous, toss away your phone - long term effects of it's use haven't been proven either.

my 2c

Re: Defeated

#66

Post by WA »

transfire wrote: post #27

Don't fly. Seriously. Aren't you tired of being stripped searched, herded like cattle, squeezed into a tin can like sardines, going 300 miles in the wrong direction to switch plans at a hub, or sitting hours in wait in your three square feet of space on the tarmac? But what to do instead? Leave a day early. Take a train. Maybe even find a co-rider heading your way and split the cost of a cabin car. Then relax and enj…

Please point me to the train that takes me from Germany to NYC.

Re: Defeated

#67

Post by nodata »

VMG wrote: post #59
raverbashing wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the general spirit of your post, however: Amsterdam Schipol has (a lot of) scanning machines as well. Germany has more freedom in certain areas and less freedom in others. (you can't take your empty bottles to the recycling bins on Sunday for example)

of all the things bothering me about Germany, this is not one of them. More the fact that nearly all shops close at 8pm and everything is closed on sunday.

It introduces a different mentality: you have to do something other than shop.

Re: Defeated

#68

Post by raverbashing »

VMG wrote: post #59
raverbashing wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the general spirit of your post, however: Amsterdam Schipol has (a lot of) scanning machines as well. Germany has more freedom in certain areas and less freedom in others. (you can't take your empty bottles to the recycling bins on Sunday for example)

of all the things bothering me about Germany, this is not one of them. More the fact that nearly all shops close at 8pm and everything is closed on sunday.

This bother me as well. However some stores are open until 10pm

In Dublin they open on Sunday, but close at 6pm on weekdays

Re: Defeated

#69

Post by hvidgaard »

philliphaydon wrote: post #58

IMO This is silly. Yeah I understand why we don't want the NSA looking into all our emails and phonecalls etc... But its a security check at an airport... This has to be one of the silliest things to get wound up about.

It's a matter of the principle - if you don't stand by the right to have freedom, someone will eventually erode it piece by piece. And The People will not care because "it's just a security check at an airport". It has been shown that they offer little to no added security, but they do reveal a lot about you and it is in electronic form. If it somehow was guaranteed that this information would never leak it would be a non concern - that is however not the case (they need to preserve this information in case it is needed). It is comparable to pictures of a strip search getting leaked.

Re: Defeated

#70

Post by hyperventilator »

raesene2 wrote: post #60
evertonfuller wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not linked to you or your passport or ID. So there is no 'you' or your 'body' that they can collect over time.

Assuming it's possible to say that two images are from the same person, it would be trivial to work out specifically who that was with any frequent flyer. You'd just build up a body of images of "person 1" then cross-reference with flight records till you narrow it down to only being one possible person who had been on all those flights...

For what possible fucking reason! This is foolishness or possibly a form of mental illness.
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