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Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

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Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#31

Post by m_ »

megaduck wrote: post #23
dschobel wrote: post #15

Serious question: who here who has at least a BS in CS didn't have a mandatory stats class where you learned all about picking sample sizes to give you an accuracy you're happy with or that an average without a standard deviation is nigh-meaningless? It's just a fact of our profession, there is a significant percentage of people who just slap together APIs and have zero understanding of the maths behind it. I don't s…

The problem isn't that people know nothing about statistics. The problem is that they think they know more than they actually do. It's fairly easy to get past your "intro to stats" class with only a passing familiarity with the subject and no deep understanding. Only once you truly grasp stats do you realize that you don't actually know anything. Any statistical formula will predict its own failure. That's kind of mi…

I studied CS and I got past my "intro to stats" class with only a passing familiarity with the subject and no deep understanding (aside from the probability aspects of the course).

The professor was very poor overall. I was able to cram enough to do well, but I retained very little after the final. I would love a deep understanding built from the foundations-- the coursework we had was a lot more obtuse and "take my word for it".

In a sense, I felt I got a better foundation for statistics from a freshman sociology class than from the Math professor.

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#32

Post by stcredzero »

biohacker42 wrote: post #27
stcredzero wrote: post #20

Oh, and you wonder why I say, “he”? I never have this problem with female programmers...I think women are better programmers because they have less ego and are typically more interested in the gear rather than the pissing contest. When I was hanging out in Homer Alaska, squatting in the tent city on the beach, I heard that on the halibut fishing tours, the women would catch more and bigger fish. (And halibut are big…

I wonder if this is a "feature" of women or all minorities? For example, do male nurses show the same egolessness as female programmers?

As a minority Irish musician, I find that this seems to have a dampening effect on my ego. (Not 100% sufficient to keep me from making a fool of myself occasionally, though.) It's also caused me to be very, very paranoid about whether or not I "get it" and as a result I've had bouts of beneficial studiousness. And yes, I have to do better to win respect, and sometimes I am judged by my skin color, not my actual playing.

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#33

Post by batasrki »

ironkeith wrote: post #28

You know, I've read a bunch of Zed's articles, and I always end up thinking that he's the source of most of his problems. There was a talk I saw him give (can't find the link) to a bunch of college kids where he basically said "phone in your job, do the stuff you love on your own time, everyone else is retarded and they'll never understand you." Great attitude you have there. I know guys like that; guys who are extre…

The talk is from CUSEC, probably this one: http://vimeo.com/2723800

As for his "attitude", I've actually met him and talked to him face-to-face. His internet persona is a put-on and he only talks like that to piss people off. In actuality, he's a really nice guy who is super-smart and who does not take shit from people. It's actually too bad that there aren't more of him in our industry. Scope creeps, memory leaks, etc. would be a thing of the past.

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#34

Post by ironkeith »

batasrki wrote: post #33
ironkeith wrote: post #28

You know, I've read a bunch of Zed's articles, and I always end up thinking that he's the source of most of his problems. There was a talk I saw him give (can't find the link) to a bunch of college kids where he basically said "phone in your job, do the stuff you love on your own time, everyone else is retarded and they'll never understand you." Great attitude you have there. I know guys like that; guys who are extre…

The talk is from CUSEC, probably this one: http://vimeo.com/2723800 As for his "attitude", I've actually met him and talked to him face-to-face. His internet persona is a put-on and he only talks like that to piss people off. In actuality, he's a really nice guy who is super-smart and who does not take shit from people. It's actually too bad that there aren't more of him in our industry. Scope creeps, memory leaks, e…

You are who your project yourself as, and to the billions of people who haven't met him who may stumble across his stuff online, he comes across as a selfish dick. IRL he could be happiness and teddy bears stuffed with sunshine, but so far as I'm concerned if the industry was full of people like him it would be in ruins.

Also, that was the exact video I was talking about, so thanks.

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#35

Post by travisjeffery »

stcredzero wrote: post #30
tokenadult wrote: post #8

The article does seem familiar, and I think I've even seen it on HN before. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48006 Yep. (There seems to be a slight change in the base URL for the submitted article, but this has been discussed here before.) Still this is well worth discussing again. It's amazing how much most college-educated people think they know about statistics that they really don't. Two of my favorite quick o…

Reminds me of the film clip Alan Kay showed at one of his talks. It was taken at a Harvard graduation, and it shows many, many Harvard graduates, students, and faculty saying that the Earth was warmer in Summer because the orbit takes it closer to the sun. http://www.sigchi.org/chi98/chikids/vol2/headlines/head2.htm...

It's caused by tilt/angle of Earth, correct?

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#37

Post by Herring »

tokenadult wrote: post #8

The article does seem familiar, and I think I've even seen it on HN before. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48006 Yep. (There seems to be a slight change in the base URL for the submitted article, but this has been discussed here before.) Still this is well worth discussing again. It's amazing how much most college-educated people think they know about statistics that they really don't. Two of my favorite quick o…

600 days ago & HN was still worried about turning into digg. Plus ça change...

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#39

Post by wglb »

stcredzero wrote: post #20

Oh, and you wonder why I say, “he”? I never have this problem with female programmers...I think women are better programmers because they have less ego and are typically more interested in the gear rather than the pissing contest. When I was hanging out in Homer Alaska, squatting in the tent city on the beach, I heard that on the halibut fishing tours, the women would catch more and bigger fish. (And halibut are big…

And Linda Greenlaw is probably the best fisherman anywhere.
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