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Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

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Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#21

Post by stcredzero »

dschobel wrote: post #15

Serious question: who here who has at least a BS in CS didn't have a mandatory stats class where you learned all about picking sample sizes to give you an accuracy you're happy with or that an average without a standard deviation is nigh-meaningless? It's just a fact of our profession, there is a significant percentage of people who just slap together APIs and have zero understanding of the maths behind it. I don't s…

There's a big percentage of programmers who don't understand O(n^2). On multiple occasions, I've seemed as a guru because of this one little tidbit.

What if the medical profession has as much egregious and widespread ignorance of the basics as programming? Would you be in favor of certification?

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#23

Post by megaduck »

dschobel wrote: post #15

Serious question: who here who has at least a BS in CS didn't have a mandatory stats class where you learned all about picking sample sizes to give you an accuracy you're happy with or that an average without a standard deviation is nigh-meaningless? It's just a fact of our profession, there is a significant percentage of people who just slap together APIs and have zero understanding of the maths behind it. I don't s…

The problem isn't that people know nothing about statistics. The problem is that they think they know more than they actually do. It's fairly easy to get past your "intro to stats" class with only a passing familiarity with the subject and no deep understanding. Only once you truly grasp stats do you realize that you don't actually know anything.

Any statistical formula will predict its own failure. That's kind of mind-blowing, and the implications aren't always grasped after just one semester (or quarter) studying the topic.

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#24

Post by [deleted] »

pasbesoin wrote: post #16
tokenadult wrote: post #8

The article does seem familiar, and I think I've even seen it on HN before. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48006 Yep. (There seems to be a slight change in the base URL for the submitted article, but this has been discussed here before.) Still this is well worth discussing again. It's amazing how much most college-educated people think they know about statistics that they really don't. Two of my favorite quick o…

Wayback has a copy of MAAFIXED.PDF (I'm not sure whether it's appropriate / a good idea to include the link).

[deleted]

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#26

Post by dschobel »

stcredzero wrote: post #21
dschobel wrote: post #15

Serious question: who here who has at least a BS in CS didn't have a mandatory stats class where you learned all about picking sample sizes to give you an accuracy you're happy with or that an average without a standard deviation is nigh-meaningless? It's just a fact of our profession, there is a significant percentage of people who just slap together APIs and have zero understanding of the maths behind it. I don't s…

There's a big percentage of programmers who don't understand O(n^2). On multiple occasions, I've seemed as a guru because of this one little tidbit. What if the medical profession has as much egregious and widespread ignorance of the basics as programming? Would you be in favor of certification?

We have de facto certification. It's called moving to silicon valley :)

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#27

Post by biohacker42 »

stcredzero wrote: post #20

Oh, and you wonder why I say, “he”? I never have this problem with female programmers...I think women are better programmers because they have less ego and are typically more interested in the gear rather than the pissing contest. When I was hanging out in Homer Alaska, squatting in the tent city on the beach, I heard that on the halibut fishing tours, the women would catch more and bigger fish. (And halibut are big…

I wonder if this is a "feature" of women or all minorities? For example, do male nurses show the same egolessness as female programmers?

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#28

Post by ironkeith »

You know, I've read a bunch of Zed's articles, and I always end up thinking that he's the source of most of his problems. There was a talk I saw him give (can't find the link) to a bunch of college kids where he basically said "phone in your job, do the stuff you love on your own time, everyone else is retarded and they'll never understand you."

Great attitude you have there. I know guys like that; guys who are extremely egotistical, are always right, and know everything about everything. They're team killing, energy sucking, wastes.

He may be able to hack like a dream, and "thanks for Mongrel" and all, but I wouldn't even want to be in the same room as him. I think from now on I'll do my best to ignore Zed's perspectives on life; they're more than a little skewed.

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#29

Post by stcredzero »

dschobel wrote: post #26
stcredzero wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big percentage of programmers who don't understand O(n^2). On multiple occasions, I've seemed as a guru because of this one little tidbit. What if the medical profession has as much egregious and widespread ignorance of the basics as programming? Would you be in favor of certification?

We have de facto certification. It's called moving to silicon valley :)

And everywhere else, people have to put up with crappy programming? I think this system leaves a bit to be desired.

Re: Programmers Need To Learn Statistics Or I Will Kill Them All (2005)

#30

Post by stcredzero »

tokenadult wrote: post #8

The article does seem familiar, and I think I've even seen it on HN before. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48006 Yep. (There seems to be a slight change in the base URL for the submitted article, but this has been discussed here before.) Still this is well worth discussing again. It's amazing how much most college-educated people think they know about statistics that they really don't. Two of my favorite quick o…

Reminds me of the film clip Alan Kay showed at one of his talks. It was taken at a Harvard graduation, and it shows many, many Harvard graduates, students, and faculty saying that the Earth was warmer in Summer because the orbit takes it closer to the sun.

http://www.sigchi.org/chi98/chikids/vol2/headlines/head2.htm...

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